pictures of k241 starter teardown

[ebinmaine 70,227]

In other news, I tore apart the starter for the Kohler K582 this evening as well. 

That'll be going on the Colossus build. 

 

 

[ri702bill 8,883]

That seems a mite rusty & crusty - are the 1/2" Heim joints for the plow rod??

Bill

[ebinmaine 70,227]

1 hour ago, ri702bill said:

That seems a mite rusty & crusty - are the 1/2" Heim joints for the plow rod??

Bill

That starter sat in the back a shed full of scrap metal for at least 20 years. Possibly 30+. 

Ugly as heck but basically functional, like me.  

 

Yessir those are the heim joints for the 60" plow.  

 

[Snoopy11 5,717]

10 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

Ugly as heck but basically functional, like me.  

 

Don

[ri702bill 8,883]

15 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

Yessir those are the heim joints for the 60" plow. 

That should be interesting - 60" is a LOT of plow - until I got the snowblower on the 854 we would sometimes struggle with the 48" if it were 6+ inches of heavy wet stuff - once I switched to the old 42" moldboard during a storm!

[ebinmaine 70,227]

2 hours ago, ri702bill said:

That should be interesting - 60" is a LOT of plow - until I got the snowblower on the 854 we would sometimes struggle with the 48" if it were 6+ inches of heavy wet stuff - once I switched to the old 42" moldboard during a storm!

The 60"+ is the one I've been using this winter. 👍

I posted a video the other day. 

[wallfish 17,350]

 

On 2/7/2022 at 5:43 AM, ri702bill said:

That should be interesting - 60" is a LOT of plow

An 854 is a bit small and lite on weight but a 60" plow was pushed fairly easy and often with 416-8 that has lots of extra weight hanging off it. Loader and backhoe. Actually considered going to 72"

[ebinmaine 70,227]

7 minutes ago, wallfish said:

Actually considered going to 72"

There's a very good chance I'm going to do just that by installing angled wings on this one at some point. 

[ri702bill 8,883]

Two passes and DONE!!!

[wallfish 17,350]

That was basically the idea. Seat time for me isn't a passion under 25 degrees.

[peter lena 9,048]

@ri702bill  do you have any HEIM  joints on your stuff ? been using them for years with zero failures , did my first installation using matching threaded rod to make it simple / easy , on steering rods , then on to pto lever rod end , clutch linkage , also on my plow blade steering quadrant , and plow blade lever rod end , every installation , detail lubed , work with total ease . pete 

[peter lena 9,048]

@ebinmaine  how did that starter rebuild turn out ? that spiral drive spin point is a typical improvement area , did mine years ago , typically verified / improved lubricant rated slide help , dry graphite on flywheel , gear engagement . pete 

[ebinmaine 70,227]

4 hours ago, peter lena said:

@ebinmaine  how did that starter rebuild turn out ? that spiral drive spin point is a typical improvement area , did mine years ago , typically verified / improved lubricant rated slide help , dry graphite on flywheel , gear engagement . pete 

 

 

Definitely a valid point for those building a starter or cleaning one out. Thanks for bringing that up.

 

I use dry graphite powder on the inside of the starter gear after I've cleaned it all out as much as I can.

To Clean out the inside of that gear I usually use a round nylon brush held in a drill or impact driver.

Low rpm. Be conscious of not spraying dirt everywhere or damaging the brush.

 

 

[oliver2-44 10,207]

While I'm restricted from any heavy lifting/work, I'm cleaning up a few starters from parts engines and wanted to add a few items to @stevasaurus excellent thread.

The starter below is off an 8hp C81 parts tractor.

Brushes and Commutators.  I'm far from a brush expert, but part of my past work with utilities' large hydro generators taught me a lot about brushes and commutators. 

So after 40 years x 12 generators (480 machine years) of learning (and 3 significant brush failures where the brushes became 500VDC arc gouging rods) here's a small lesson:

 

In operation a properly functioning brush does not actually touch the copper commutator.  The brush actually rides on a microscopic fill of gas created by the current flowing  between the carbon surface of the brush and the thin layer of gray carbon that has been deposited onto the copper commutator.  In operation you would like a nice even-gray-haze/film on the commutator. Not a haze that has thick solid black spots or thin almost bright copper spots.   many of use would like to take a Scotch Brite pad and polish that copper commutator nice and bright.  In reality you should take a coarse heavy cloth (like a  burlap sack) and work the heavy black spots off but leave a nice even gray haze/film.  I didn't take a before picture, but in the picture below I've cleaned this commutator to a nice even lite gray haze.

   

I'm replacing the brushes on this starter with new one. In the photo below the worn top left brush face is worn at an angle.  There is a new brush on the right and you can see the top left worn one has about 1/3 of its height left.  The brush is wearing at an angle because there is not enough length of brush left in the holder to keep the brush straight. The bottom left brush is about 1/2 length and its face is still fairly square so its still being held properly in the holder   I don't know of any design number but this seems to indicate that these brushes should be replaces somewhere in that 1/2 to 1/3 length left.

This 8HP starter has a 16 tooth starter pinion shown below.  When moving used starters around you have to pay attention that they match the flywheel gear they are going to.

All of the bushings on this 8HP starter were reusable.

This starter of a 12HP K301 has a 10 tooth pinion.  I also have one that has 9 teeth which I've read a lot of Green tractors have.

The front cover (middle bushing) on this 12HP starter had 0.025ths egg shape wear, so I've replaced it. You can physically see the right side of the original bushing is worn thinner. The new bushing is about  0.001 to 0.002 larger than the shaft. 

Under multiple layers of paint most of these starters have model number information

But this 3rd 12HP one didn't.

Interestingly the 3rd one also was missing almost 1/2 of one magnet just like the one Steve had above.  It ran before I took it apart, but I would have to think it would not have quite as much torque to crank a motor over.

[peter lena 9,048]

@ebinmaine excellent pictorial  starter tear down and detail facts, for me it was the verification that every part is vital to function and use. too often we see a problem that is only tried to be fixed at one spot , while all related pieces / parts as shown with rusty wear . ebin,s work detail gives me total confidence in his way to get it done , pete 

[ebinmaine 70,227]

13 minutes ago, peter lena said:

@ebinmaine excellent pictorial  starter tear down and detail facts, for me it was the verification that every part is vital to function and use. too often we see a problem that is only tried to be fixed at one spot , while all related pieces / parts as shown with rusty wear . ebin,s work detail gives me total confidence in his way to get it done , pete 

Much appreciated Pete but the above is credited to @oliver2-44

 

😀🐻👍

[peter lena 9,048]

@oliver2-44   sorry I did not reference you to that starter rebuild , that was not intended , very thorough exposure of potential trouble spots . very good job on that , pete 

[Alrashid2 379]

Hey guys,am I ok to post a question here?

 

My starter spring got all mangled a few weeks ago. I eventually got the nut off the Bendix (was difficult) and replaced spring.

 

Now I find this great post! And I realize my starter didn't have the two washer looking components highlighted in the attached screenshot...

 

Do I need those? If I get back in there, could I use any old metal washer? Or maybe a nylon one? Can't tell what material they are supposed to be.

 

And does someone have an easier way to get the nut off? When I tried to get it off and back on, the entire spindle just kept spinning. Had to clamp the spindle with vise grips but that made me nervous id mar up the threads. Thanks all!

 

[ebinmaine 70,227]

1 hour ago, Alrashid2 said:

And does someone have an easier way to get the nut off? When I tried to get it off and back on, the entire spindle just kept spinning

 

Battery powered Impact Driver. 

If you don't already have one it'll be a tool you never knew how much you needed.  

 

1 hour ago, Alrashid2 said:

Do I need those? If I get back in there, could I use any old metal washer? Or maybe a nylon one? Can't tell what material they are supposed to be

 

I'd say yes for sure. I don't know the original material either. I'd think even a thin metal washer is better than none. 

I could check tomorrow as I have two starters on the bench for future rebuilds.  

 

 

[kpinnc 13,412]

9 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

If you don't already have one it'll be a tool you never knew how much you needed.  

 

So very true. Worth every penny if you get one. I didn't know just how often I would use one until I got it. 

[ebinmaine 70,227]

1 hour ago, kpinnc said:

 

So very true. Worth every penny if you get one. I didn't know just how often I would use one until I got it. 

 

As many of you know we're a little "busier" than some around here. 

We picked up our first impact driver probably 7 or 8 years ago. 

That was the standard issue 1/4" hex driver. 

We both liked it so much that we NEEDED a second. 

Since then we've kept those and upgraded to a 1/2" drive medium duty.

All of those are the normal shaped ones that look like a hand drill. 

 

Just recently, we bought a 3/8" drive Subcompact Right Angle Driver. That's long and thinner like a ratchet. 

And now again..... how did we do work for so long without this???

 

[Alrashid2 379]

I actually have one! Bought it when I did my first work repairing a deck. What a life saver!

 

But I gotta ask, did you have to hold the Bendix down while using impact? How do you keep it from just spinning?

[ebinmaine 70,227]

4 minutes ago, Alrashid2 said:

I actually have one! Bought it when I did my first work repairing a deck. What a life saver!

 

But I gotta ask, did you have to hold the Bendix down while using impact? How do you keep it from just spinning?

The impact "hammering" should occur faster than the starter shaft can react. 

Likely just holding the body of the starter down will be enough.  

 

 

[Alrashid2 379]

I'll give it a shot 

 

Merry Christmas all!

[Alrashid2 379]

Haven't had a chance yet to look at the starter, but will hopefully on New Year's Eve - off work!

 

@ebinmaine did you ever get a chance to look at the starters on your bench? Any idea what the washer materials are? I will replace when I get the starter off - hopefully the impact works to get that nut off!