pictures of k241 starter teardown

[stevasaurus 22,739]

Chas...you and JimD are both right. I just got a used starter from SmokinJoe last weeked. It is the same starter as that on my 10 hsp Kohlers, but the starter from Joe has a 13 teeth pinion. Glad you brought this difference up, I may not have noticed and tried just mounting that new starter. Looks like the pinion will interchange. Thanks guys.

It pays to count teeth. Learned something again. :thumbs:

[WH854 44]

Steve I started a thread about this here.

http://www.wheelhorseforum.com/index.php?showtopic=27160

read this Terry is looking into the gears and starters and ring gear fitting all the big block engines.

Chas

[dmoore 796]

I've got mine off now for a lil maintenence....so what is the proper way to remove that nut from the shaft? The shaft has to be secured some how I would think....I would like to replace the spring, it seems a lil weak....D

[stevasaurus 22,739]

I've got mine off now for a lil maintenence....so what is the proper way to remove that nut from the shaft? The shaft has to be secured some how I would think....I would like to replace the spring, it seems a lil weak....D

I was lucky enough to hold the pinion and the nut came loose on my first one. This did not happen on my second and third.

Take out the through bolts...pull off the bottom end...pull the whole armature and cap out the front end...place the armature in a vice...now you can grab that pesky nut. After cleaning, I put the front cap, washers and spring and pinion back on before placing the armature in the case. Using the vise again. This is probably the right way to do it. Hope that helps. I did not hurt the armature doing it this way...just need enough pressure to hold it. :thumbs:

[dmoore 796]

Ok, I gave it a lil thought,grabbed the 1/2" impact with a 1/2" socket & zipped that nut off with no problem....the armature probably didn't even budge! Removed the pinion,spring,spring seat and wire wheeled the shaft good...took a bottle brush to the inside of the pinion...I noticed a lil wear on the face of the teeth, not bad...guess I caught it in time.. coated the shaft with lithium grease & put every thing back together...ohhh, I stretched the spring just a wee bit, not much at all..I didn't open up the starter because it works like a champ..just wanted to check that pinion return...I'm glad I did! :thumbs:

[WH854 44]

I was visiting Brian Millers Sight borrowed this from him!! This is a tool for holding the springs and brushes, in order to put them back together!! Shows how to make one

Looks like it is easy to make!

Chas

[stevasaurus 22,739]

Just thought I would let you all know, that I took my starter that is missing some of the magnet (the one at the top of this thread) and put it back in my B-100 yesterday. I also tuned up the tractor. I was surprised, when I turned the key, that starter engaged the flywheel and turned that 10 horse like it was brand knew. The B-100 is now running great and no dead spots in the starter. YES :wh:

[WH854 44]

:wh: That is great Steve

Chas

[WH854 44]

:D Has anyone ever replaced the bearings (bushings) on these starters? I see on the Kohler site they have the whole end cap as a P/N No bearing replacement.

Chas

[WH854 44]

The end cap for the drive end of the Starter I have the cap P/N is 45 081 05 S cheapest price I could find was $ 45.00

Chas

[Electro12WH 50]

Doesn't anyone polish the commutator when they have it apart?

My first thought when I saw Steve's magnet was"Where did all that metal go in there?". There's not a lot of extra room in that case.

[oldtin 0]

I got a bearing from a bearing supply store and had to cut to length,but have enough stock for 2 more starter front bearings!

[stevasaurus 22,739]

I did not replace the bearing...it was still OK. The magnet pieces basically jammed the starter, but I did not crank it at that time...no damage to anything but the magnet...cleaned out all the pieces and the dust...can't really believe it still cranks that 10 hsp engine with all that magnet missing. I have another sleeve to replace that one if it gets to that...it is not winter now.

It would be nice to add to this thread what you did to replace the bearing. Keeps the information in one place. Please do that. :woohoo:

[Anglo Traction 761]

The deserved 'Bumping' of Steve's Thread here is long overdue, as it is a good source of help to all and hopefully be able to add some?.

So why !. Well I got around to cracking open 2 old, probably junk Starters that I accrued, one with the old 74 C-120 and the other with the '81' replacement k301 engine (C-120 has a nice new Aftermarket Starter).

I wanted to check these out before I went into my 72 Raider12 starter, as it is making the occasional scream and is probably due for a clean out.

 

When I opened these up (74 on the left , 81 on the right), I found this -

 

 

The edge of the Magnets have broken in exactly the same place on both!.  The one on the right had been running with it broken as there are marks worn into it.  

 

I see Steve's had broken in a different place, but wondered if anyone else has found similar location damage?.

 

The Bearings at the Bendix end are in a sorry state, they look like Steel, rather than 'Oilite' or plain Bronze.  Back ones look ok and have a Bronze appearance. Brushes on both look ok.

So, Steve , like you did  , I'm going to fix these up just to see if they run ok. Including making up the Bearings once I know what they're made of.....Lot of cleaning to do first with a stiff paintbrush and a Vacuum Cleaner.

Regards.

 

 

   

         

 

 

 

   

[Anglo Traction 761]

Made up one good starter out of both in the end. Some good/bad parts on each. 1 good Bearing End Plate.

Bonded the broken piece of magnet back in place ok-

 

 

Rotor, Shaft, Commutator had some evidence of excessive heating due overlong Engine cranking, but cleaned up ok. 

Commutator was pretty good,  but cleaned up in the Lathe anyway-

 

 

Rear Bearing/Brush Plate (American Bosch) was stripped out (had the best brushes), cleaned and checked. Brush Springs were a bit iffy as they were not finished ends like the other ones, so I swapped them out. All went back together ok ready for refitting and the bushing lightly (lithium) greased.  

 

 

Just need to find out what the 'End Float' clearance should be, before I bolt it back together, may need another Thrust Washer in there.

  

 

 

[1940willys 120]

All very good info. Thank you all who contributed!

[ebinmaine 67,492]

On 10/18/2021 at 8:49 AM, 1940willys said:

All very good info. Thank you all who contributed!

[ebinmaine 67,492]

Ripped into a starter from a 12 HP Kohler that I'll be cleaning up and installing on a K341. Seems ok overall. It wasn't making any horrific noises. 

I just wanted to disassemble it to derustify and repaint.  

 

 

 

[tunahead72 2,412]

 

[ebinmaine 67,492]

Folks, how do I buy the right bushings for one of these starters?

 

The one in my most recent post is just going to be a cleanup and reassemble but I do have one that's quite noisy so I'm sure it's going to need end bushings.

 

Is it just a matter of disassembly, measure the shaft and associated cup?

Then a trip to the hardware store?

 

[oliver2-44 9,749]

@ebinmaine

I was just working on a couple of starters. I bought 1 kit from DB Electric because I needed some brushes, springs and  the plastic piece that holds brushes.  They were good to use.  It came with 2 bushing instead of 3 and one of them doesn't fit anywhere. 

But here's some measurements. The existing bushings sure look like steel or a very hard brass.

 

Starter Gear Bushing (most worn) (could not drive bushing out easily) probable just need to buy a new starter gear with bushing.

Starter Gear Shaft (Unused/new area 0.405)  (Worn area 0.403)

 

Middle shaft Cap Bushing I.D. 0.525  OD 0.749 Height 0.465   

Middle Shaft                                                      (Worn area 0.518)

 

Rear Bushing New I.D. 0.3375  New O.D. 0.456 (I'm measuring ID with a dial caliper so its not exact.  OD measured with 1" micrometer.

Rear Shaft (unused/New area 0.338)  Worn Area 0.335) 

Note: I did not replace the rear bearing, but I think the only way to get a worn one out would be to brill it out.

 

 

Edited February 16, 2022 by oliver2-44

[ebinmaine 67,492]

20 minutes ago, oliver2-44 said:

here's some measurements

Excellent. Thank you.

[oliver2-44 9,749]

@ebinmaine you could probable drill the old bushing out of the starter gear if needed. I had just wanted to not destroy anything I didn’t have the replacement parts in hand for. 

[ebinmaine 67,492]

4 minutes ago, oliver2-44 said:

@ebinmaine you could probable drill the old bushing out of the starter gear if needed. I had just wanted to not destroy anything I didn’t have the replacement parts in hand for. 

Absolutely agreed.  

 

When I rebuild the one I have it won't be needed right away so I'll have time to order parts and do the work right.  

 

 

[ebinmaine 67,492]

Finished up on the starter cleanup I'd gotten into a few weeks ago.  

Had The Paint Department do her usual magic then bolted it all back together.