Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Redbirdman

701 value vs 702

Recommended Posts

Redbirdman

There was a post where a question was asked about the value of a 701 and a photo was shown.........there was a great gnashing of teeth :ranting: and people jumping up and down on their hats about the value and the quality of the machine in question. B) But as far as I'm concerned, that is completely subjective! To me, the value is entirely fleeting.

If it's over priced it ain't gonna sell! If it sells, it ain't overpriced! no matter what the price

But what is more important (other than the price) is for us to identfy what is correct and to share our knowledge of each machine that we are familiar with.

In the above example, the question was asked about a 701. I noticed the photo was not at all like my 701, but rather like a 702.

Here is a photo of the rear end of 701 in question.... (() .....

Picture_044.jpg

........And here is my rear end ( ( ) :D

wheelh010-2.jpg

In my OP I believe the first photo is a 702 frame with 701 sheet metal...

But let's ask da boyz, WHAT"S THE DIFFERENCE guys? Am I right? Nothing against 702's but I always understood the 701 was a revolution of the RJ58. The 702 was just a stylized version of the 701.... :scratchead: which I am sorry to say means 'cheaper built'..... :hide:

ED

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
TT

The 1961 701 was yet another milestone "small" tractor for the Pond's. Their first front-engined model designed for suburban homeowners, it strayed far away from the converted two-wheeled walk-behind based tractors built up until that point.

Although these round hood tractors look "the same" to many people, every year they were produced (1961 to 1964) showed improvements and refinements over the previous year(s) and gave each group their own "personality" or traits to enable them to be identified individually.

The 701 was the guinea pig of sorts and had a lot of "one-off" or unique pieces (or lack of) that were not used on any of the following models.

The most obvious would be the solid-front hood, the dual starter/generator belt system, and the lack of a parking brake and left side cover.

Some other unique (different) things:

The rear fenders had sharper rear corners and were mounted to a low tapered-side tool box and had diagonal support braces.

The steering wheel had three exposed steel spokes and was the same part used from late 1956/early 1957.

The 701 had a starter relay (solenoid) activated by a push button mounted in a plastic dash panel. Ignition power was controlled by a split key switch - also mounted in the dash panel.

Throttle and choke controls had small convex-faced knobs and the amp gauge had a black bezel.

All 701's produced had a single bend near the bottom of the shifter, since the HY-2 had not been introduced yet. It wasn't until part way in to '62 that the second bend showed up, which allowed the shifter to clear the pump unit.

There are variations in the steering components, including the lower support, lower shaft, tie rods, front axle, etc. that changed over the four year "run" of these tractors.

Too late to say this, but "long story short"..........

The 702 was - for the most part - the improved version of the 701. The 753 was the improved version of the 702, and the 1964 854 was the last and final tractor of this generation and was the improved version of the 753.

I could keep on typing about these, but it's probably easier (on me :D ) for you to ask specific questions though. :ychain:

  • Excellent 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
Redbirdman

But what about the difference in the two rear ends.....??? ( ( ) (() :ychain:

It looks like my 701 has the same style fender mounts as were common for fords and farmalls.....The 702 (not shown above) seems to have replaced this heavy mounting bracket with just angle braces (not shown above but is here below) and this allowed the heavy braces to be done away with......not an observation but just a guess on my part........ But these two rear ends above are clearly different...WHY, if they are supposed to be both 701's? or am I missing something... :D

supposed to be a 702? see the fender mounts?IMG_0510.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
Indy w h

The 701 fenders came to a sharper point at the back Where as the 702 the point was more rounded And like Terry said the support rods were done away with in

1962

Indy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
Redbirdman

so Indy and TT, what you are saying then is the first photo up top is NOT a 701, but a 702 with 701 fenders.... right?

And my 701 (the second photo down) is a true 701 with the support rods.

and the 3rd photo down is a true 702.......... :ychain:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
Indy w h

The first pic : Has the pointed fenders with the support rod, has what looks to be the plastic dash(that's been painted) With the push button ign. Hole

In my opinion is a 701

pic # 2

Has the pointed fenders with support rods, correct foot pads

but I can't see the dash or the front of the hood

Pic #3

Has the rounded fenders with no support rods , has the 1962 dash (solid metal with decal)

and the slotted hood

in my opinion a 702

Indy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
DMK855

Ditto with Indy WH....

First two appear to be 701's. One with an incorrect seat pan.

The Third is what I would sau is a 702.

Just for my sanity, what are any/all differences in the two pictures in the first post other than the seat pan???? :ychain:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
Redbirdman

Just for my sanity, what are any/all differences in the two pictures in the first post other than the seat pan

The rear axel............the first one is clean (same as the 702 in the third photo)

Mine, (the second one ) has big lugs and mounting brackets on the axel.

Also, the 702 (the third one) and the first one have braces around the tow bar.

Mine, (the second one) has no braces around the tow bar..... :ychain:

wheelh010axel.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
Indy w h

Ok. The circles

The one in the middle:

That's not a brace it's an optional hitch so you can pull stuff

(like a wagon or a cart or a lawn rake)

The ones on the axles :

they are for the snow blade Thats where the pivot point is

(really can't see much of them , and I'm tired)

Indy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
Kelly

I thought you might be talking about the added on stuff to the rear end, those outer ones are some sort of added bracket in the same place a axle bracket would be for a snowplow, but yours are differnt than any I have ever seen, get closer pictures, the hitch looks the same on both 701's, missing the lift cable, the 702 someone added a reg tow hitch, and yours has the wrong seat pan, it should be the square one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
DMK855

So other than the Axle mount that was added for an attachment, there are no differences...... Thought I was really missing something here........ Thanks!! :ychain:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
MikesRJ

Sp what's the physical difference between the 701's 5007 transmission and the 702' 5025 transmission? :ychain: Anything external, or are the differences only internal?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
Redbirdman

Now we are getting somewhere!.....I'll go out and take some closer photos later.

Wrong seat pan huh? So is the good news might be the wrong seat pan I have might be the right seat pan that's missing from my other RJ58?........please.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
CasualObserver

The outsides of the cases should appear the same, except for the already mentioned addition of the parking brake left side shield in 1962.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
DMK855

Redbirdman, It does appear to be the correct pan for the RJ. However some switched to the round seat pan to keep the seat pan from hitting the fenders!! Just a thought!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
MikesRJ

It's the right one for an RJ, and Dwayne is correct.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
HorseFixer

But let's ask da boyz, WHAT"S THE DIFFERENCE guys? Am I right? Nothing against 702's but I always understood the 701 was a revolution of the RJ58. The 702 was just a stylized version of the 701.... :ychain: which I am sorry to say means 'cheaper built'..... :hide:

ED

Ed, all things being equal the 701 is a more Rare tractor as TT mentioned it had alot more one off parts, dubble Gen Pully, Double Wide Gen Belt Gaurd, Plastic Dash, Belt cover no impression for the 701... Rear Fenders Different, Gas Tank, Just alot more things that are one of a kind and this along with being first front mount engine makes the Tractor more collectable and from what I have seen worth more money. :D

Since those parts are harder to find, the Tractor will take a harder hit when it is missing things. :D

As far as cheaper built? Not really just refined and different. :D

~Duke

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
puddlejumper

Although I really like the ergonomics of the 701 dash and ignition starter button although the plastic dash was a mistake. I really dont understand why they didnt leave the key and starter button like the 701 on the latter model tractors with the metal dash. Especially when the hy2 fits the 701 without mods and requires moving swith and starter button on the others. Its like they designed the hy2 for a 701 setup then changed what it was designed around. :ychain:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
TT

The 1962 models were the only ones not technically designed to use the HY units - mainly because they were already in production when the hydraulic lift "showed up". (hence the one bend shifter on the early models)

Pull the Dial-A-Height (lift lever stop) casting off the side of a 1963 hoodstand and you'll see the holes for the key switch and starter button. I know you still had to move stuff, but at least you didn't have to bolt that high-tech box on there like the '62 models. :D

I guess it just happened to be luck that the 701 could accept the HY units without moving the electrical stuff - unless :ychain: designers could see into the future. :D

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
puddlejumper

Well guess I just learned something If I think about it in the future I will have to pull the levers off my 753 and 552 so I can see what your talking about didnt know there was extra holes in the 63 for that purpose. But I still like the key switch and easy push button on the dash vs The willys foot button on the hood stand :ychain:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
Kelly

Mitch just pull the lift height selector off the hole is behind that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
puddlejumper

Yea, or shine a flashlight on the Inside. :ychain:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

  • Similar Content

    • buzzard440
      By buzzard440
      1961 701 for sale complete and original w/ mower deck. Runs but needs TLC. 




    • Brad Schroder
      By Brad Schroder
      Looking for 701 (k161) parts. Starter/generator, right side belt cover, left side belt cover, air cleaner housing. Thanks
    • oliver2-44
      By oliver2-44
      This one was on Marketplace for quite a while with a hefty price tag.  I ask if he was flexible on price, Nope.  After a quite a while longer same question before I made the drive.  Come on up, maybe we can make a deal.  The rest is history, I didn't steal it, but I'm happy with the deal!
      Ya I know you want pictures, but there a little more interesting back story.  His granddad's business was Nicholson Machine and Equipment and he was a Wheelhorse Dealer in the 50's and 60's in Paris....., Tx  that is!  He sent me this picture of the glass window from the door to the business that he has framed.  
         
      He also wrote me a short note about his Granddad's business.  So after his he passed, his dad gave the tractor to him. he's had it for quite a few years and said it's always been garage kept.

      So if a Dealer owned this for his own use and never sold it, and then it passed to his Son, and then Grandson, that would technically make me the 1st buyer, 
       
        Ok so on to some tractor photo's
       
      beautiful double pulley belt guard front and center.  It starts with a spray of gas in the carb, but doesn't stay running.
       

      All there, nice and original, you can see a weld repair on the front of the belt guard,
       
      Here's the serial number @gwest_ca


      The plastic dash is intact and not cracked!

      My 1st old style split key.

      it still has the orignal Silverton Ags. They hold air, but their so hard they probable don't need any.  I wonder if their hard because they might still have calcium chloride in them???
        
      The hitch pin isn't frozen and the lift cable even works.

      Interesting decal plastered across the front of the hood.

      aluminum gas tank is fairly clean.

      Hood bottom tab has been repaired.

      topless view of the engine, needs a bath. The front tires are original and hold air, but have some splits across the thread.
       

      Homemade choke and throttle cable bracket.  The base of the engine has wet oil, so i suspect it needs some gaskets.

      Both axle seals are dry, but the input shaft and brake shaft seals leak.

      I've learned if the top of the transmission is filthy oily, it probable means theirs water in the transmission that has floated the oil out.  This one is clean so hopefully that's a good sign.

      Started some maintenance and a beautiful sight, not a drop of water, just black oil.  It shifts through the gears nicely so it will be interesting to see how it runs/drives.
      I'll gradually go all through it with my checklist.  701 Minor Overhaul Checklist.ods
       
      Then have to decide if I rub it down with linseed oil like it is, or buff with some steel wool or wet sand to bring a little more red out, then oil. 
      How would ya'll put your finishing touches on it?
       
      I'll update this thread as I do maintenance on it and get it running.
       
       
       
    • Mike in NC
      By Mike in NC
      This happened to jump on my trailer. I am thinking it is a 702. 7 HP Kohler with 62 printed on the serial number sticker. It needs some parts and some work, but engine is loose. Can't beat free! Guy said it was his dads tractor and the last time he remembers it running, his dad drove it. He said his dad passed away 26 years ago. Now I have a 701 and 702!




    • wh315-8
      By wh315-8
      So just picked up a 701, obviously the engine isn't right. I have a 7hp Kohler to put on and will put B&S on my Speedex. Anyone ever seen a post come out on the right from the rock shaft? It rotates with the lift handle and has no holes in it. It was done up well, almost looking factory.



×
×
  • Create New...