Kohler K181....oil on top of piston-pictures-

[hoppy 0]

puddlejumper........you might be onto something with that idea. might work.....if i can get some penatrent done there. i dont see any threads at all. its just a nub of metal and there is just no "bolt hole" to speek off. its like solid metal around that nub :thumbs:

[SkyhawkTL 19]

Time for a rebuild.

Do it yourself - you'll have fun and learn a lot. There is plenty of information out there to help you through it; and Redsquare can help if you hit a jam.

[btrrg1969 11]

as far as that broken bolt "nub" goes , Snap On makes drill guides that will make that easy to drill out , it slips over the bolt and centers the drill bit.

http://snapon.com

[TT-(Moderator) 1,145]

That little nub looks awfully suspicious...... like maybe part of a broken extractor.

[JUSS10 250]

all i'm going to say is DONT drill it then use an easy-out. i made that mistake on one of my motors. broke it off and that left me with hardened steeling stuck in a hole where the bolt is. i had to sit there with a dremel and carbide bit to dig it out. not fun. just drill and use a left handed bit.

i was rebuilding chevy 350's in high school so don't be to worried about a rebuild. with a manual you can easily do it yourself. its fun and if you take your time, you should be ok :thumbs:

[btrrg1969 11]

That little nub looks awfully suspicious...... like maybe part of a broken extractor.

you know Terry you might be right , I went back and looked at the first photos and it looks like it might have been leaking exhuast , I bet that sucker been broken awhile :thumbs:

[hoppy 0]

it sure has been broken awhile! and yes it was leaking exhaust on that corner area.

why is it i go to do a simple fix and always come across somethiung much larger?

[mavfreak 11]

Seams that way for me with everything I do. Unless I'm working on someone else stuff.

[hoppy 0]

murphys law i suppose................or just what you get for picking vintage stuff!

work on it for a hole weekend to ride for 20 minutes.........thats how the sleds go!

[mavfreak 11]

Every time I work on someones car or tractor no problems occur every bolt comes out and goes back no issue.

I work on my vehicles or tractors and nothing works out right or I have to make a dozen trips to the parts store.

But you know what. They still get fixed. So just keep at it and it'll work out!

[Anglo Traction 761]

Hoppy,

Not sure which way your going to go on this 'Interruption' problem of yours?. I would suggest you just give the Stud area a clean off with a Rotary Wire Brush first. This will show up the original Stud hole. If you plan to sort the broken stud issue somehow, you need to get the Penetrating Oil in there first. It is possible, you could drill a 3/32" hole into the Side face of the Block (between Govenor Rod and Carb) to meet the threads of the bolt to get the fluid where it is needed.

There are a few things I would need to elaborate on for you to do this, but you have nothing to lose and everything to gain. I agree with Terry that the 'Nub' does look like a broken 'Easyout' or a Tap!(I can see four equispaced flutes in the Nub). I'm not familiar with the K181 Head Stud layout, but I assume this Problem Stud goes into solid Cast Iron, and not through Fins or into the Exhaust Chamber.

......These metalic machine thingys can be frustrating, but I consider them as engineering challenges that stimulate the brain, make your hands dirty, provides good physical exercise and occasionally produces a few spots of blood......don't let a piece of metal get the better of your sanity. Stick at it .

[hoppy 0]

:thumbs: im not sure what i should do. part of me says......do the right thing and have it fixed properly and done by a proffesional. The other part of me knows this tractor ran just fine with that broken bolt or tap or whatever the hell it is.

decisions decisions............. in the mean time while i try to make a decision ive been glass beading and some of the engine parts. that being said shes going to look good if i do or dont rebuild it! blasting and painting is cheap but tedious. alot of differant opinions on what i should or should not do here. i guess im having a hard time deciding what is the best option for me.

[jasoncracer 0]

i just rebuilt my k181 yesterday at napa it costed me 28 for rings and all gaskets very easy it looked the same just not as bad but close now it runs smooth no smoke more power!! good luck :thumbs:

[linen beige 14]

That little nub looks awfully suspicious...... like maybe part of a broken extractor.

My thought s exactly. Especially the way it looks like at one time it had a square head on it.

It kinda sounds like you may not have a lot of shop experience working on older stuff. If that is the case I think you should take it to a machine shop or repair shop that does a lot of work on farm machinery. They have LOADS of experience removing broken off bolts and should be able to remove this in a matter of minutes for less money than you would spend on the tools you would need to get it out.

[btrrg1969 11]

It kinda sounds like you may not have a lot of shop experience working on older stuff. If that is the case I think you should take it to a machine shop or repair shop that does a lot of work on farm machinery. They have LOADS of experience removing broken off bolts and should be able to remove this in a matter of minutes for less money than you would spend on the tools you would need to get it out.

That is often the case and good advise , however for me I like to go head on most of the time and fix it myself but like you said TOOLS , I figure if I buy something that makes the job a success I've won and I have a new tool that I will be able to use the next time. If it is a broken tap this works greate Walton tap extractor http://waltontools.com , I bought a set for about $ 56 and it has paid for its self 3 times now . as for a stud I stated earlier in a post snap on makes a drill guide , good luck in what ever you do , but I think getting out that piece and using all the reccomended bolts is what I would do :ychain:

[zach l 2]

I would try to weld a nut to the top of it it looks like enough to weld to.when you weld you would put some heat into it and it might loosen up if not soak it with some free all or something.good luck

[jasoncracer 0]

i just rebuilt my k181 and the same bolt near the exhaust was the hardest to come out i agree if you are not sure what to do bring it somewhere good luck :ychain:

[Anglo Traction 761]

im not sure what i should do. part of me says......do the right thing and have it fixed properly and done by a proffesional. The other part of me knows this tractor ran just fine with that broken bolt or tap or whatever the hell it is.

......... alot of differant opinions on what i should or should not do here. i guess im having a hard time deciding what is the best option for me.

Hoppy, It look's like most people here think you should sort the Sheared Bolt part by having it done professionally. In your responses, it shows your very unsure of how to go about it yourself. In view of that, I think it would be unreasonable of us to convince you otherwise.

You will feel much better about yourself and the rest of the work you do on your Tractor when it is returned to you with a nice clean Tapped Hole where that old Stud was.

You will be safe in your mind knowing that when that Engine Fires up again, there will be little or no chance of the Head Gasket Blowing in that area .

If it is Run like it is now, the Head will distort and you'll have more to pay for and worry about. The designers put a bolt there for a reason.

I respect and admire a person who Knows their own limits and is prepared to admit it. We can't all be good at everything, but we can all be good at something.

Hell , I'll even chip in and send you a few of your bucks of it helps !. :ychain:

[dgjks6 6]

So how is the progress? Did you get the bolt out?

[hoppy 0]

I walk by it every day in shame..........im going to yank the motor and take it a shop after christmas.

[dgjks6 6]

Saw this for sale. I was going to say just exchange the blocks, but then I read the fine print.

Looks like the same issue - with the same bolt.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Wheel-Horse-Commando-8...=item2eb203532d

[Duff 206]

I walk by it every day in shame..........im going to yank the motor and take it a shop after christmas.

No shame in that, my friend....better to act within our skill levels and tool availablility on some things!

Good luck!

~Duff :ychain:

[theoldwizard1 2]

Late to the party, but I just want to add my $0.02 !

There are really only a small number of companies that make pistons (ignoring the specialty high performance one). Even the auto companies buy most (all ?) of their pistons from these companies.

The point is, genuine Kohler pistons likely are cast and machined in the same plant using the same tooling that "aftermarket" pistons are made.

[Brandonsj04 0]

Whoa guys, I know we love our horses but maybe we should pull back on the reins here before we give "hoppy" the grim news that he needs a complete rebuild.

First things first, the exhaust head bolt needs to be addressed. "Hoppy" I do not know your level of expertise, so I won't assume you know nothing or everything. I will give you some ammunition, but it's up to you to pull the trigger. Your expertise will determine if you will shoot yourself in the foot or the bullseye. First you have to understand why the exhaust bolt has broken. Repeat heating and cooling cycles, which happens to engines everytime you start and shut them off, causes condensation to form, rusting your exhaust bolts to the block. A bolt will break when the bond of rust between the block and bolt is stronger than the bolt head itself. Do not be nieve and go buy an extractor kit thinking that is the magic answer, because it's not. You need to first weaken that rust bond to even get a chance to get it out. Now we have lots of options.

Wack it with a hammer, also called "shocking" the bolt. Don't try to set the stud to china, don't try to mushroom the stud, but just a firm wack. This helps to break the bond.

Penetrating oil. Let it be known that silicone spray is not penetrating oil. Penetrating oil wicks itself through the threads to get to where you want it. Silicone spray is just a light lubricant. The ones that everybody have good luck are PB Blaster and AeroKroil. Penetrating oils work best if they are allowed to sit. So spray some on, come back the next day and spray some more, and do the same the next day.

Heat. With general knowledge of expanding and contracting properties, metal expands when heated and contracts when cooled. Heating up the area surrounding with heat while also cooling the target bolt or stud breaks that rust bond. What works for me is heating up the block around the stud, and then when I get it as hot as I want it, I spray pb blaster directly on the bolt until everything is cool to touch. Some people do used ice, but I like pb blaster because it cools and penetrates. If you don't have oxy/acetlyene torch set, use MAPP gas as it burns hotter than propane.

Wax. This is one not many people know or use, but heating up the block while melting wax over the bolt. Your goal is to heat up the block and stud up enough that touching wax to them causes them to turn to a liquid. Just heating up wax with the torch will not work. The wax is drawn into the treads forming a barrier between the bolt and block to help get it out when extracting.

Welding on a nut. I guess this one is self explanitory but you weld on a nut to the broken stuck to give you something to bite on.

Now we can talk about extracting and generally there are three options. Left handed drill bits, easy out or extractor bits, or pay a machine shop. From experience, buy quality extractor bits/ easy outs, and use the biggest one you can. Left handed drill bits drill into metal when your drill is in reverse vs. normal or right handed drill bits the drill into metal with drill in forward. Once again use the biggest you can to avoid breaking off the bit. If you have both, start first with the LH drill bits as if they don't work, you can always use an easy out, but break an easy out and the drill bits won't stand a chance against a broken off easy out.

Do yourself a favor and buy anti-sieze when you reinstall the bolts. Then you won't have to worry about any of this.

Now with having to do with your engine needed a complete rebuild.

For many of us, these are our hobby's, they don't get us to work ( I wish though), keep the house heated, or food on the table. I would feel bad if we just say shell out the money and get it rebuilt, when many of us could lose our income if our job all of a sudden disappears. I mean if we are starving or have no money, is the length of the grass or the amount of snow in the driveway that significant? With the so to speak rebuild in mind we have to do our due dilegence. Kelly was on the right track with a compression test, but a leak down test is better because it show's how much leakage and where it is coming from. A compression test of 75 psi doesn't tell us that we need a rebuild. I mean we could be leaking compression from an unseated valve or a bad head gasket, which a leak down tester will show.

Anybody ever see what a plugged PCV does to an engine?

Hoppy, take care of the broken exhaust bolt first, then we can get around to the engine next. As far as the broken fins on the head, yeah that pretty important but it depends on how bad they are broken. The fins displace heat from the engine which otherwise might overheat the engine causing severe scoring of the cylinder from broken rings or might even cause broken connecting rods.

Report back and let us know

Good luck with ! :ychain:

[junkman 0]

:banghead: I am the master at wringing off bolts. Have two head bolts waiting for me to get to now. Two tips:

1. Be gentle with easy outs, as they are very hard and therefore brittle.

2. The worst thing you can do is drill off center. If you do as you tap in the easy-out you will actually wedge the bolt to the block if the hole in the stud is drilled too big.

Good luck! :thumbs: