How do you level an established yard?

[300zx 7]

I have a 1 acre yard that is 21 years old in Va clay. Over the years, the back has gotten rougher to ride. It is on about a 5 to 10% grade with septic lines. The settling around the septic lines has caused a roller coaster effect. I plant to kill it all next August and try to level it before I reseed. Any suggestions on how to level or smooth it out?

[GlenPettit 1,717]

Kill it all and then just keep riding around and around pulling an old Bed Spring, (width-wise, 7' wide), a disk & drag will greatly help break-up ground and speed the leveling process.

August is a good time (if the ground was soft you might crush a septic line), would be nice to bring in a load of good soil to add and spread in; check pH to see if you need to augment lime.

Rain usually starts again in September so the grass will get a good start in Fall.

Also check to see if your tank needs a flush (vacuum) if it's been more than a few years.

Michigan Glen

[mr.pipes 4]

Good question 300. I am in a similar situation with a flat property though. I would like to know how I can kill the area. I don't know much about the chemicals available, just wondering if they will have a negative effect when growing the new grass.

What are some options to kill the existing vegetation?

I need a good project for my grader blade.

[300zx 7]

Mr.Pipes, here in Virginia we have a weed called wire grass. It is a form of Bermuda gass, spreads quickly and is very hard to kill because it goes so deep and is drought resistant. We use Roundup by Monsanto to kill it and that kills all of the other good grasses like fescue. We typically start in August and after two weeks, we spot spray any green foliage that has survived the first application. Usually two applications will work. I don't remember exactly what the label says, but it is safe to plant new grass after two weeks. Roundup is absorbed in the foliage and goes down into the roots to kill the plant. It is not a pre-emergent like other products (Preen or crab grass pre-emergents), so no residual stays in the ground to kill the new seedlings. Our toughest time is during the summer when we can have 6 to 8 week droughts. Virginia clay dries out quickly and without irrigation, it is hard to start a lawn in the spring or summer. It is much easier in the cooler, wetter fall.

Good Luck.

[GlenPettit 1,717]

For a chemical like Roundup to work, the grass has has to be actively growing so the active agent can be absorbed by the leaf and transferred down to the root, exactly like Mr. Pipes said. Make sure the green stuff is growing, several good waterings can help a lot, may take 4-5 days to start to see results after spraying.

Follow directions very carefully, Roundup was called 'Agent Orange' in the 60's, in it's concentrated form it can do some serious damage to everything and everyone. Farmers need permits & training to handle larger concentrates, but just follow the directions, wear gloves & stay upwind and you'll be fine, I use it a lot.

Glen

[rickv1957 72]

If you was to roto till the area then run a drag over it to smooth and even up the ground.

[6wheeler 661]

A good thing to remember with systemic herbicides like Roundup. They will also kill bushes and flowers that they can drift on.(including your neighbors young Lilacs. Or, so I have been told ) Also, do NOT water before you use it, As a matter of fact. If it is somewhat dry, The offending foliage will absorb it more readily. Hence, faster burndown. There used to be a herbicide called Ranger, I don't know if its available any more. If you wanted a complete burndown, that was your animal. We used to clear pastures for replant. It killed trees, shrubs. Bad stuff. Good Luck Pat

[Shuboxlover 479]

I agree with Rick....

I made up my own saying about starting a yard....

It's much like the saying about real estate...which is..."Location Location Location"

Mine (for starting a yard is)...."Preparation Preparation Preparation"

DON'T GET IN A HURRY!!!!!

First....Kill the vegetation...Round-Up is readily available, cheap (if you get the generic stuff) great results when used properly, and as mentioned before....leaves no residual.

Second...Till the area...and if you can, let it set for a month or so to get mellowed out. Here in the plains states (since it freezes every winter) letting that freshly tilled soil in the fall (even if it's nasty clay) will yield a nicely mellow soil in the spring.

Third...use a drag...e.g. harrow, bed spring....chain link fence...anything wide to smooth out any non-uniformity

Fourth...sow your seed...

Fifth....re-drag to cover up the seeds...

Sixth....Spread starter fertilizer...

Seventh....cover with straw or prairie hay or some sort of "mulch" (not the wood mulch) to lock in moisture

Last...Water and keep moist...

If you follow these steps, you should get a very good result..

That is unless you get 1.25" of rain in 20 minutes and $800 of your grass seed ends up in your ditch :D

[dcrage 629]

Need to correct something said earlier in the string

Roundup is in NO WAY related to Agent Orange from the Vietnam War era -- Roundup is the name of one of the many commercial herbicides containing glyphosate (the common name for the molecule that kills the grass or weeds) -- Glyphosate is one of the safest herbicides (if not the safest) ever made -- LD50 for glyphosate is listed at >5g/kg for test rats which means the testing lab couldn't feed enough glyphosate to the rats to get them to die -- It's mode of action for killing growing plants uses a pathway that animals (including us humans) do NOT have -- The most "toxic" components in glyphosate herbicide formulations are usuallly the surfactants (soaps, detergents, shampoos are examples of products containing surfactants) added to make the spray solution spread accross the leaf surfaces and helping in the transport of the glyphosate molecule thru the wax layer on the leaf surface into the plant -- This is needed to allow for the translocation of the glyphosate to the roots of the plant where the 'plant killing' happens -- The EPA has designated glyphosate as 'non cancer causing' -- Roundup (glyphosate) reallly is safe to use

The confusion about Agent Orange probably happened as follows -- Agent Orange was a defloliating herbicide containing 2,4-D and 2,4-T (common herbicide chemicals from the 1960s -- In fact 2,4-D is still a widely used herbicide -- Look at the label on your bottles of 'Weed-be-Gone") that also contained dioxins (PCDDs - bad stuff) which were impurities formed during the making of the 2,4-T (I think that was the bad actor) -- Anyway the Defense Department contracted with big US chemical companies to make Agent Orange -- Monsanto was one of those companies (Dow was another even bigger supplier) -- Glyphosate was discovered and developed and sold by Monsanto -- Glyphosate (the world's largest selling herbicide) is still sold by Monsanto, thought technically it is not the same company (Monsanto got bought and sold a few times in the past 12 years and then spun off to the company it is now) -- So Roundup and Agent Orange were herbicides produced by a company with the same name (i.e. Monsanto) -- Other than that Roundup is in no way related to Agent Orange

Oh, couple of other things

You can spray and plant grass seed at the same time if you wanted to -- Glyphosate has to have the green growing plant to work, it does nothing to a seed, and it has no residual activity -- In practice the "spray and wait two weeks approach" is a good idea, because you might have to spray some of the hard to get stuff again, and if your new seeds have sprouted in the mean time they will be killed for sure!!

For best efficacy you need to spray when the plant is actively growing -- So the comment about spraying when dry is not right -- Spraying a day or so after a good rain storm is ideal -- Now spraying and then having it rain right after is not good -- You need for the rain to wait a couple hours if using a name brand Roundup product (I make no claims about the Chinese generic knock-offs)

Generally glyphosate won't hurt trees and bushes -- The wax layers on these types of plants are too thick for the molecule to get thru -- But please do be aware of your neighbors stuff -- If the wind is howling at 20 mph, don't be using Roundup or any other herbicide -- Spray drift will killl plants next door to you just as well as on your property

OK -- Now for the disclaimer -- I do now and have for the past 28 years worked for Monsanto, in fact quite a bit of that time working on glyphosate and Roundup formulations

[W9JAB 156]

The confusion about Agent Orange probably happened as follows -- Agent Orange was a defloliating herbicide containing 2,4-D and 2,4-T (common herbicide chemicals from the 1970s -- In fact 2,4-D is still a widely used herbicide

I'm a big fan of Agent Grape

[6wheeler 661]

Thanks for the info on the round up. However, I will disagree with the not dry statement. I use round-up alot. And it always works better for me when it is fairly dry. It seems the plants more readily absorb it. Or, at the least I get faster results. And, even though it is a safer product. All chemicals should be treated as though they are hazardous. In the old days, I can remember being told by the sales rep. that I could eat a tablespoon of an insecticide called Lorsban. Its much safer than the Counter you are using. Well, I told him if it kills insects, I sure as hell ain't eating it. I am just saying, be careful with these things. And, I do have one question for you Dave. Does Monsanto make herbicide that will stop creeping charlie? I've tried brushing on Round up on some of the plants. It does work a little, but because that little bugger re-roots as it grows, it seems to just kill the portion it touches and doesn't go back to the source. I think the weed b gone is a joke. It never works for me. Bayer is supposed to have something I have been told. But, to buy enough to do my yard would be very expensive. Its 3 acres and the grass is pretty good so, I want to kill the cc but not the grass. I figure a chemist will probably have the best answer. Thanks Pat

[theoldwizard1 2]

If you are a cheap SOB (like me) get the Walmart brand herbicide. Much cheaper, but not as fast acting as RoundUp.

[dcrage 629]

Pat (6wheeler)

No -- Monsanto doesn't make anything other than Roundup to kill your problem weed -- You are on the right track with the spot application of Roundup -- Some weeds do take multiple applications to kill; for example a good stand of Bermuda -- And I would not be suprised if Bayer had a product for that specific problem -- They (Bayer) are actually a chemical company with active research for new stuff -- Monsanto is a SEED company now, who happens to sell some herbicides

By the way you will get no argument from me about treating all pesticides appropriately -- The connection the Agent Orange was all I really wanted to be clear about

[Shuboxlover 479]

The confusion about Agent Orange probably happened as follows -- Agent Orange was a defloliating herbicide containing 2,4-D and 2,4-T (common herbicide chemicals from the 1970s -- In fact 2,4-D is still a widely used herbicide

I'm a big fan of Agent Grape

:ROTF:

[Redbirdman 7]

Any suggestions on how to level or smooth it out?

OK......after you get the weeds all kilt and the ground kinda tilled or scratched up I found a great way to grade it and smooth it out.

Of course, a Gannon (or box grader) or a mid mount grader is the best but we all don't have that handy!

Here is my trick I used for years: I take a 5/4 by 6 inch, by 8, 10 or 12 foot length of treated decking......(depending on the size of the yard) and set my snow plow blade down right smack in the middle. (Lengthwise not across it...) Then I run a couple deck screws (with my Makita) into 4 "U" shaped cheapo pipe clamps. (The kind you use to nail pipe to a wall.) One in front and one in back of the blade on each end of the blade. Then just tie it tight. The u clamps keep the blade from sliding forward or twisting on the plank and the rope keeps the plank tight up aginst the bottom of the plow blade. A shingle or two adds a little 'English' so the plank has some angle and don't dig. It helps to leave the snow skids on and up flush with the blade too.

You can use a 2x6 as well but the 'rounded edges' on the decking do a better job without gouging.

This works FANTASTIC for spreading gravel too.... just dont try and drive real fast through a narrow gate!

ed

PS: OH, I forgot to mention 'float' vs 'downpressure' on the blade.....but you'll get used to what to use.......and sweeping turns work great to 'trowel' excess soil from hi spots into the shallow depressions.................have fun!

[300zx 7]

Ed, good idea. I'll have to try that.

John

[stoneman 10]

john . . . if i recall one of your earlier posts, you have a 4x4 kubota tractor. if so, your best option, and most fun i might add, would be to rent a 3 point mount, pto driven harley rake. wait until the grass has completely died off and turned brown for best results. (10 - 14 days) go over all the crowns a few times, then cross hatch it. if you want some real nice results, go over it with a good heavy roller and find your low spots and high spots. then use your loader to even things out. one more shot with the harley rake and 1 or 2 good ground men, and you're ready for seed.

[hounddoghundzsa 7]

For a chemical like Roundup to work, the grass has has to be actively growing so the active agent can be absorbed by the leaf and transferred down to the root, exactly like Mr. Pipes said. Make sure the green stuff is growing, several good waterings can help a lot, may take 4-5 days to start to see results after spraying.

Follow directions very carefully, Roundup was called 'Agent Orange' in the 60's, in it's concentrated form it can do some serious damage to everything and everyone. Farmers need permits & training to handle larger concentrates, but just follow the directions, wear gloves & stay upwind and you'll be fine, I use it a lot.

Glen

If you cut the grass/weeds prior to application it will leave an open "wound" thus speeding up the rate of absortion.

When dealing with stubborn vines like poison oak or Ivy: Take a machete and chop a small section out of the main trunk and apply a small amount of Concentrated round-up to the open wound and the vine will be dried up and brown in less than a week.

One of Round-ups main ingredients is simply salt. If you've got an area such as a brick patio, sidewalk or driveway where you don't want ANYTHING to grow EVER you've got two options: Take about 3-5 pds of rock salt and put in a bucket and top off with some water. Let it sit about a week until most or all the salt is absorbed. Then spray or dump it on the area and it will keep anything from growing back for a very long time - just look next to the roadways where road salt is used in the winters to clear the snow.

I've also just taken a box of table salt and sprinkled it along the cracks in a sidewalk - When it rains it'll wash down in the cracks and kill whatevers growing in there.

Also, have you ever spilled some some fertilizer like triple 19 on the yard? Nothing will grow there for YEARS! LOL

Good luck!

[jtmoyer 1]

fertilizer like triple 19 on the yard?

so is that heinz 57 :banghead: