Enamel Paints as of Feb 2011 are nomore!

[ThePartsGuy 0]

I hate to ruin anyones day but i heard today that enamel paints will not be sold anymore as of feb 2011. ( some kinda goverment b.s ) I guess the paints will be water base paints only.

I heard this from a good friend that owns a bodyshop..is this really true? What about clear coat? doesnt make any sense to me but i do know that im really getting sick of this us goverment. Its time to clean house!!

Also heard that if you sell anything over $600.00 you must 1099 the person.....HOW LAME!!!!

[rmaynard 15,716]

What I have been told by my local auto paint distributor is that waterborne paints are being phased in and solvent based paint phased out in certain parts of California only. Other states are not making it mandatory, but a lot of body shops are looking into waterborne paints for the eventuality of a Federal mandate in the future. It will only apply to shops that do a high volume of painting, and will not apply to individuals. The waterborne automotive coatings are only available in base coat, and clears are still solvents. Now how much sense does that make?

The rumor going around a couple of years ago was that stores like Lowes and Home Depot were no longer going to sell solvent or oil based paints. Granted, there are a lot more Latex paints sold now, but oil and solvent based coating are still available. At least here in Maryland.

Bob

[stevebo-(Moderator) 8,362]

In my business I see this too (commercial roofing materials). The state and federal authorities are pushing for low/no VOC content. Most VOC's come from solvent based products.

[wheelhorse656 20]

i was reading online about this bann and i just think it a load of b.s. who gives a crap about what we use to paint with. they just need to face the fact waterbasd pain just wont hold up like oilbased will. and why does the epa feel the need to ban somthing thats safe to use with the proper gear and that has been used for over a 100 years? this is just bunch of crap!!!!!! stupid oilbased paint ban :thumbs:

[mavfreak 11]

I think PA is fallowing California with the ban on paint. I think that will put alot of small good shops out of business

[Ken B 3,164]

My brother in law works for Sherwin Williams auto paint division here in CT. He says this water based stuff is being pushed big time.

[Kelly 1,030]

I work in a body shop in MI. they are telling us we have a few years, but I've talked to guys at other shops that have switched, they did it kicking their feet, but now love it, they say clean up is much easier, the paint blends better, overall they love it now, I remember switching from Laquer paints to base coat clear no one wanted that at the time, and I remember when mig welders were new no one wanted them, but now no one can do with out them, change is hard to do some times.

[Horse'n Around 22]

Change is scary, at least it is for me. When I got my first job as a bodyman/painter ALL we shot was synthetic enamel for completes and sometimes lacquer for spotjobs..... and this was in 1982.My boss had been a bodyman since the early 50's. He was a Sgt. with Patton during WW2 thru the Battle of the Bulge and he was set in his ways....it took me 3 years to get him to buy a paper machine , he was still using newspaper that he had stockpiled in a ice box... not a refrigerator a real icebox(I remember one day we were dead so I went thru the newspapers in the icebox and found an Arizona Daily Star dated June 7th 1963 which is my birthday so I kept it,some that went back to 1954 ) Anyway the point Im making here is.... well actually all Im doing is agreeing 100% with Kelly is that even tho Im a bit nervous ok a LOT nervous about having to get used to a new type of paint, it might be an even better system than anything were using now. Im so used to shooting Acrylic Enamel and also Urethane base coat clear coat systems that its going to take me a bit to wander out of my comfort zone. If I have the chance to try it out before theres a ban I think I will, that way I can learn the ins and outs before its my only option.

On the plus side, at least it should be much safer to store,also the chances of spontaneous combustion should also be greatly reduced. I dont know if that is as big of a problem back east as out here in the Devils playpen but there were times when a few of the shops I worked at had fires break out .Granted 99.999% of the time it was because someone didnt properly dispose of the filters and piles or buckets of paint dust after doing booth maintenance etc. The scary part is that most of the time there was a fire, luckily it was at night after the shop was closed and it occured in the dumpster far away from the building but there was one time where a new painters helper failed to soak the dirty overspray encrusted booth filters in water like he was told to do, he left them on the floor in a corner and that night ... poof, we had a pretty nasty fire, and we were closed for about a week , he wasnt invited back to work after we opened back up Like I said these were all avoidable with common sence and training but accidents do happen and if someone doesnt have any training, they might not realise that that pile of painted paper and or paint strainers and sticks can go up easy if they are not disposed of properly and if the temp is right poof!

John

[PPGman 5]

I know here in PA, there is a national EPA rule that goes into effect at the beginning of the year, and theres a state DEP rule that pretty much starts to "phase" out solvent starting 2012 from what i understand.

For our shop to make the switch to water from solvent, we are anticipating thousands of dollars in expense just to work with the new product. In essence, what the governement does when they mandate stuff like this is pass yet another tax onto the people without them even knowing it! When our shop finally lays out the cash for the added cost of switching to waterbase, we will just pass that onto our customers in the form of a higher labor rate.

Here's my idea: Let the market drive the move to water base products. Theres no doubt its the future for paints, but leave the mandates out. When companies start making products that make better sense as far as cost, and ease of use to make the switch, than shops will make that move on their own....i'm sure of it. But when gov mandates this crap, and dumps it in the lap of small business and says deal with it.......they essentually create an oppertunity for horrible products to start hitting the market. The shops have to deal with all these problems, and we in short pass them onto our customers. In short, a tax that you don't even know your paying in order for us to comply with federal mandates.

On another note, from what i understand, these new VOC rules are not targeted at the hobby and collector crowd. My paint suppliers say that the new rules are aimed at manufacturing, and body shops. I will say this though.....if your local paint store sells 95% of their products to body shops.....they will have little solvent taking space on their shelves if you ask me.

I wouldn't get too excitied over sovent making an abrupt exit as of yet. Everytime theres a new election, this stuff all gets shaken up to some extent or another. There's no doubt that water base paints are the future of automotive paint.....i just wish they would let the market decide when the time for solvent has come to an end. :thumbs:

[horsefeathers 15]

Well said PPGMAN!

I started in a body shop in the early '80s enamel, lacquer,base/ clear.

Was the norm! And still is as far as I'am concerned! I hate change!

Now I work at Joy Mining Machinery, we build under ground mining equipment!

About 5 years ago they switched form solvent base to waterbase!

And I gott'a tell ya' it's fantastic!

The old solvent base paint was dry blotchy and just crap!

The guy's painting these 3 million dollar machines are wharehouse men!

No previous painting experience! And the look very good!

So.. you can't mess this up I guess!

Oh well it's comming like it or not!

What happened tothe good old days when a boy could paint his tractor!

[mowerman1193 32]

My best friend owns a Body Shop here in Michigan and I work for him from time to time. He did the switch and loves the stuff. Like someone else said easier clean up etc. I have not yet sprayed the stuff so not real sure on that part though. It does seem to look good and hold up well "so far anyway"

I also have to deal with this stuff in my woodworking finishes. They are phasing out the solvent based Polyurethane and replacing it with water base. I have used it and love it! It dries in about 10 min. rather than 6-8 hours. Also if i sell toys or puzzles they have made the rules so complicated that most just stopped selling them. I make and sell them but do not put a finish on them anymore. Yet China made things get away with it. I also have heard about the tax deal on the $600 and 1099 forms. That is going to be a pain in the rear when that goes into effect..

Kevin

[Kelly 1,030]

I've been paying on a 1099 for years and years when I race cars and make more than $600 heck that is one feature win, but my friendly HR block guy helps me write it off.

[jwilbt 0]

I'll just add my two cents to what Kevin said; the paints are not all that bad. I've been using AutoAir water-based paint for a couple years in airbrush work and finally started shooting some larger panels (Wheel Horse hood sized) with my SATA minjet. I heat set with a quality heat gun and once you get used to that it goes smoothly. For my work, I love that I can tape ultra fast and not worry about lifting. My biggest gripe is there is no decent water-based clear. I still clear with HOK or PPG. It took me a long time to get used to the paint in my airbrushes and will probably face an ongoing learning curve with bigger panels but in the end, I think things will work out fine. - Denny

[rmaynard 15,716]

If they develop a single-stage, waterborne urethane automotive-type paint to be used by do-it-yourselfer's, I will be first in line to buy it. As Kevin said, waterborne finishes have been used in woodworking for years. I have used them exclusively since 2001 to refinish antiques, and I find them much more user friendly than solvent based.