OIL CONFUSION

[illinilefttackle 399]

:thumbs: I must admit-I'm confused. I try to read as much as I can about things before I do them. I am planning on re-building the K-301 in my C-125 so I would like to know as much as I can about it. I was reading on a Brian Miller site and it said he recommended using NON-detergent oil in these splash systems. I always used non-detergent in my dads Ranch King-12 HP briggs-because it says too.

But what about these Kohlers? I'm using Shell Rotella right now-HELP!

AL :thumbs:

[520HC 208]

I've been using Kohler Engines for over 25 Years and I have always used Detergent oil.Never had a problem.Kohler oil itself is detergent oil.I just finished rebuilding a 16 HP in a 30 year old Wheel horse for a friend who always used detergent oil and not a bit of sludge was found in the oil pan.That's what detergent oil does for you.Just My thoughts.

[Kelly 1,029]

I know it cost more but in my good motors I use Mobil 1 full syntetic and have not had a problem, I also use it in my truck and race cars transmissions and rearends may cost more but parts are not cheap

[Jim_M 178]

I also use Shell Rotella 30 Weight in the summer and 10W 30 in the winter. My Power King has Amsoil 30W small engine oil in it and it seems to work fine, but it's over $7.00 a quart. I was given 3 quarts to try out or I probably wouldn't have it.

[hoosier 1]

I've read that non- detergent oil should be used in anything that does'nt have an oil filter and a means to circulate the oil, I'm taking that to mean an oil pump. The reasoning is the non-detergent oil allows the nasty stuff to fall to the bottom of the oil pan and a detergent oil keeps it suspended for removal by the filter, which means the impurities might still be splashed upon your moving parts. Like air compressors mostly call for a non-detergent oil. That said, I've never used a non-detergent oil in any of my engines. I just don't know enough to make an informed decision.

[Curmudgeon 28]

How about another 2 cents worth?

IF, the engine has had non-detergent used in it previously, it'll have a build up of sludge in it. Start using detergent oil, and it'll start breaking up, possibly in chunks, which will do nothing good for the inside of the engine.

Personally, I use the newest SAE detergent oil, but don't spring for synthetic.

[hoosier 1]

From Brian Millers page. The Kohler expert, as far as I'm concerned. Check out his site.

What Type of Motor Oil Should Be Used?

In an older or freshly rebuilt air-cooled, lawn & garden engine with splash lubrication or if it has an unfiltered oiling system with no oil pump and/or no oil filter is used, it's best to use SAE 30 weight non-detergent motor oil. Non-detergent oil allows any impurities in the oil to settle to the bottom of the oil pan. Detergent oils suspends any impurities so the oil filter can better filter it. Detergent oils should be used only in engines with an oil filter. If an engine doesn't have an oil filter, it's best to use non-detergent oil for long engine life. If an engine is used during wintertime, and being there are no multi-weight non-detergent oils available, the only choice is the use 10W30 or 10W40 motor oils so the engine will crank over easy to start fast. And be sure to change the oil when it's hot on a regular basis.

Actually, I've used detergent oils in my personal non-filtered lawn mower engines and they seemed to last a long time. But I keep the oil changed on a regular basis, too. What I said above is what most manufacturers suggest to use [non-detergent oil] in their non-filtered small engines, which does make sense. And I guess you know as well as I do that nothing lasts forever in this world and despite what kind of oil is used, eventually all engines will wear out sooner or later.

If you think about it, most pulling tractors don't run long enough (compared to race cars) to totally heat the oil and break it down so it's thin. But if it makes you feel any better, it's safe to use SAE 50 oil instead. Due to the extreme pressure of the internal moving parts at high rpm (above 4,000 rpm), don't use multi-weight oils such as 10W30 or 10W40. They could cause excessive wear, resulting in damage to internal parts. I've used SAE 30 at times then SAE 50 in my two Super-Stock tractors and have had good results with both oils.

But if you don't mind spending a few extra bucks, the best type of oil to use in a pulling application to use is full synthetic SAE 20W50 motor oil. Test data shows that you can get a 1 to 2 percent increase in horsepower using full synthetic oil. There's also a less chance of a full synthetic oil leaking because it doesn't "thin out" as easily as petroleum oils, especially under extreme heat conditions. Because extreme heat has little or no effect on chemical-based products such as full synthetic oil, RTV silicone sealer, etc., it doesn't break down like natural-based products sometimes do. Once you understand the properties of full synthetic oil vs petroleum oil, you will never use petroleum oil again. And either type of oil may need to be changed periodically if burning methanol fuel. Amsoil has a 20W50 and a straight 60 weight for racing/high performance applications.

Synthetic oil is mainly used in high performance engines that operate at extremely high rpms for long periods of time because full synthetic oil won't get hot like petroleum oil does, which protects the internal moving parts better. But mineral oil, which is more commonly known as petroleum oil, is used in ordinary engines that will never operate at extremely high rpms for long periods of time.

Full synthetic motor oil remains cool to the touch even after an engine has been operated for several hours. The viscosity remains the same, too. Petroleum motor oil gets hot and the viscosity breaks down after a while if the oil is not properly cooled. But there's also a synthetic blend type of motor oil that's half synthetic and half petroleum. They don't offer the same protection that full synthetic oil do.

Basic rule of thumb concerning motor oil is this: Rub some between your finger tips. If it feels too thin, chances are it won't provide the needed protection for your engine.

Also, I think that oil additives don't do a thing for an engine. An engine will still wear out. In this world, nothing lasts forever. Everything eventually wears out. Besides, if oil refineries thought that an additive would help an engine last longer, they would go ahead and put it in their oil. Additives is just something to get people's money, nothing more

[illinilefttackle 399]

:thumbs: Hoosier-that's the page I read. Man, I'm really confused now!. If I use detergent oil I have to change it ridiculously often to get rid of particles suspended in the oil. Or if I use Non-Detergent I have to worry about gunk forming in my oil pan-I think I could live with the gunk if I could figure out how to get it out periodically. Flush it out? I guess I'll just sit back and listen a little more to people that have more experience than me! Thanks for any comments!-AL :thumbs:

[Curmudgeon 28]

I've read and do put a lot of faith in Brian's website. This time however, I'd go with what KOHLER recommends to use in their engines for their intended purpose, which is what we are using them for.

" OIL TYPE: Oils meeting the requirements of the American Petroleum Institute's (API) Service classification SC are suitable for use in Kohler Air Cooled Engines. Service SC oils are detergent type oils. Oil viscosity (weight) is selected according to the anticipated ambient temperatures."

While SC isn't to be found anymore, my tendency would be to upgrade to higher standards rather than change types.

[hoosier 1]

Al, I'm not going to worry about it anymore. I'm going to use the oil that I want to and change it when I want to. As long as there is oil in there and I change it now and then it will be fine. Dale makes a good point. The Kohler people should know.

[oldandred 15]

well guys i uae reg 30 w oil and dont have a problem with it even in my new tractor thats never had the oild changed yet now the truck, car, Van get 5-30 hd but the van has 2650000 miles on it and doesnt use any oil yet so I must be doing some right. :thumbs:

[Curmudgeon 28]

well guys i uae reg 30 w oil and dont have a problem with it even in my new tractor thats never had the oild changed yet now the truck, car, Van get 5-30 hd but the van has 2650000 miles on it and doesnt use any oil yet so I must be doing some right.

Kinda sounds like you're using the engine manufacturer's recommended oil in those things too.....................

Go figure. :thumbs:

[HorseFixer 2,012]

All oils have to go thru an API rating "American Patroleum Institute" but these ratings are bare minimum in order to pass. There are other ratings that mean a whole lot more such as ASTM ratings "American Society of Testing Materials" this is where the rubber meets the road. Petroleum Based Oils have to be refined and are inferior compared to synthetics. Synthetic lubricants are designed and blended for a specific application. Is $ 7.00 for a quart of AMSOIL to high to pay to protect your investment for a season? In My honest opinion absolutley not. Actually its

$ 6.00 when your a preffered customer. Yes I am an AMSOIL dealer but have studied & read extensivley on this subject. If you would like to read more information just do a google search on "Wheel Horse Garden Tractor Lubrication" You will find your answers there.

Cheers Duke