Frozen Transmission

[stevasaurus 22,865]

I like this grease because it's supposed to be better for bearings that get wet. I use it in my boat trailer bearings. Should be available at any car parts place.

[yokomist 0]

Thanks for the picture Steve, I picked up something pretty much the same as that. Whats the best application method?

I have been riding the rollercoaster of hope this afternoon. It turns out that the biggest problem with parts stores computer systems seem to be operator error. Advance didnt have the 3x #1232 seals that the man on the phone said they had. The person I talked to at the store laughed and said their system wont even cross reference the part I wanted....

But on the good side of things I have the SKF#7410 seal in my possession and my trans case looks pretty (although the paint job was a little rushed, I was thinking I was going into action re-assembling tonight!)

Well I will get on the phone in the morning and see how fast I can get the last 3 seals to me.

Thanks

Bevan

[stevasaurus 22,865]

1st...let the paint dry (a good day) in the sun if possible

2nd...dig out those seals. May want to run a razor knife around the seals now that they are painted. Sorry, thought you had them out already. You may be able to tap a punch down from the inside, but more likely, you will need a screw driver or ice pick to try to pry them out from the outside. Might catch the edge with a small claw hammer or the like.

3rd... use your finger and put a bit of grease in the bearings. Put the correct shaft in if you want and turn it by hand. The idea is to get grease in that bearing. Does not take much. Put a little 90 wt in the also if you think it will help. Can't lube them enough at this point. When you put it together, you are looking at the splash method to do the work. Spend some time here, you know it is worth it.

4th...any more run around on the other 3 seals...just bite the bullet and get the right parts from Toro...maybe 2-3 days. Paint will be dry by then.

Bevan...the case halves look fantastic. :)

[yokomist 0]

Alrighty - It turns out that CR9815 should work out for me to replace #1232. Napa will have them in by 11.30am tomorrow. Fingers Crossed.

Just incase someone feels like looking this thread up in the future... the new Toro number to replace #1232 ---> #100863 which translates to -----> CR9815.

I hope it works because no systems would cross reference that, but google tell me it should work out.

I will try and dig those seals out and get some grease in those bearings.

I am feeling lucky this time

Bevan

[stevasaurus 22,865]

The thing about Motion Industries...if you take in the old bearing or old seal, they can match it up by measuring the diameter (inside & out) and depth and come up with something that will work. Like I said in my post, I am wondering if they can match up that $80.00 ball bearing that only Toro has. I did not have an old bearing to give them at the time. so as these parts disappear, a place like this becomes invaluable.

Anyway, if anyone has a problem matching a bearing or seal, you can send it to me and I will go to the other side of town and see what's up. My word on that. :USA:

[Retired Wrencher 5,512]

:) Bevan I use Lucas grease a newer type of grease I use a lot of Lucas products they all work great. I hope this helps. Gary B...............

[sorekiwi 761]

Just came across this thread today (well, actually late last night).

Glad to see the Americans are keeping you out of trouble Bevan. Living in Florida probably means that you dont interact with too many Americans, seems like the place has been overun by the poms (limeys).

You seem to be getting sorted. It all looks pretty complicated at first, but once its clean and things start sliding as they should it isnt that bad.

As to the differential side bearings, I've tried to match them up with Motion Industries, and Applied and a few other bearing houses with no luck at all. I cant believe that there arent some stashed away somewhere in the world, but so far I havent found them.

[Retired Wrencher 5,512]

:) Bevan I use Lucas grease a newer type of grease I use a lot of Lucas products they all work great. I hope this helps. Gary B...............

[yokomist 0]

Gary thanks for the tip, I will try some Lucas next time I run out

Mike it seems clear to me that someone has purchased all the bearings back in the 80's as an investment, as it appears the weight/cost ratio is comparable to gold

Thats the best part of this rebuild so far, that the large bearings were in great shape in the trans. I guess its just luck. (I bet next week once its all up and running one of them will fail now lol)

You are right about this being intimidating at first, I am feeling much more confident now with steve helping me out! But its true about it not looking so bad once its cleaned up.

Did you make it back to the mother land yet?

Bevan

[sorekiwi 761]

There were actually at least 2 manufacturers of those bearings. My memory seems to be getting a little unreliable, but I'm thinking originally they were made by "Nice" and later by "Pacamor" in Japan. Bearing companies make bearings in huge batches, I cant believe that Wheelhorse went to the expense of having a proprietary bearing made just for them.

If your bearings are fine now, they will last for years to come. Clean them and feel them with just a little light oil in them, they should feel smooth. You can look at the surfaces of the races for any signs of pitting. I've had 10 or 12 transmissions apart now and have only found one of those bearings bad.

Did you make it back to the mother land yet?

No I havent been back for 10 years now. I'd like to make a trip, but it just seems I've got too much going on these days. I am under heavy pressure to take my 6 year old daughter down to meet her cousins and Aunts and Uncles though.

[HankB 16]

The thing about Motion Industries...

I'll echo Steve's suggestion to go with Motion Industries. There's one near me and probably one near you. Napa and Advance Auto are in competitive markets. They can't afford to pay top dollar and that means that dealing with counter staff is a crap shoot. Could be someone pretty sharp, or it might not.

Motion Industries supplies commercial customers who are more concerned about getting the right part in a short time so they can keep their plant running. You won't find the cheapest part, but I'd bet that you would get what you need as quickly as possible and be served by someone who knows what they're doing.

I stopped at Napa looking for wheel bearings and seals for my Harbor Freight trailer. They couldn't find them in their system and sent me to Motion Industries. I had the bearings the next morning. They weren't cheap. But I'd rather spend the money now then deal with a breakdown hundreds of miles from home.

Nice looking trans case, BTW! The longer you let it cure the less likely it is to get chipped while you put things back together. Uh... Is that paint on the needle bearing?

-hank

[yokomist 0]

Hank, I will definately go with Motion If things dont pan out in the morning. It sounds like they are the place to go, I guess my hesitation was that I fugured a couple of oil seals could be had locally. I need to get used to thinking in terms of a 50 year old tractor. Be a touch more realistic about my parts selection expectations.

And I have no idea what you are talking about with the paint on the needle bearings...

Heh, it was scraped off right after the photos were taken when it was soft still, no damage done but my heart did skip a beat a second when I noticed the paint on there. Thought I might be ordering bearings after all

Thanks Gents,

Bevan

[yokomist 0]

With the woodruff keys on the axels, did yours have little pieces of scotchbrite pad looking material on the keys?

I can take a photo if I'm not making any sense. Is this something I need to replace when I re-assemble?

Well my gasket is somewhere between WI and FL so thats going to be my limiting factor today. Hopefully I can still set the seals and assemble the gears.

Also, can anyone tell me, I am still getting used to pints and quarts etc in place of ml and liters... Was it a pint and a half of a quart and a half of gear oil?

Thanks!

Bevan

[HankB 16]

With the woodruff keys on the axels, did yours have little pieces of scotchbrite pad looking material on the keys?

I can take a photo if I'm not making any sense. Is this something I need to replace when I re-assemble?

I've never seen that. The Woodruff key should fit snugly in the slot in the axle and the slot in the hub. Did some previous technician try to take up some wear by stuffing something in there? I would be interested in a picture just out of curiosity.

I recall discussions of a loose key before. I have also heard of those keys shearing. It seems that was not one of the more robust aspects of the design. If the key way is worn, my inclination would be to take the parts to a machinist to see what repair can be affected. Some later hubs have two set screws at 90° from each other. Perhaps you could drill and tap for a second set screw if yours has one.

Also, can anyone tell me, I am still getting used to pints and quarts etc in place of ml and liters... Was it a pint and a half of a quart and a half of gear oil?

Let's see... A pint's a pound the world 'round, or so the saying goes. I guess that's not much help. A chart I downloaded from mywheelhorse.com shoes 1 1/2 quarts for most manual transmissions.

best,

hank

[yokomist 0]

Here the picture of the padding behind the woodruff keys:

Also the hitch thats driving me crazy right now. I have snapped drill bits inside the metal I am trying to drill out I would have thought that dewalt titanium drill bit would have been tough, but they are the softest bits I have ever come across.

I will track down another bottle of gear oil today too then. Thanks Hank.

Bevan

[stevasaurus 22,865]

Good morning Bevan, how are you today?

The woodruff key is a #15, Toro has them and I think they are less then $1.00 apiece. I would put in new ones anyway. They are designed to break or shear if something goes wrong so as not to damage internal pats. Take the old keys with you and match them up, the old ones may not be the right keys. Take one of the axles with you also. The key should fit snug in the axle and the part above the axle should be snug in the hub.

Nice job on that hitch. Check out a machine shop to get those pieces pressed out. Another option is to put an add in the want ads here and see if one of the members has and new hitch and pin for you. I am going to Scott's M&G next weekend, maybe someone going there will have one.

Did you get the seals out yet?

I see Mike found this thread.... :)

[stevasaurus 22,865]

Bevan...check this out.

http://www.wheelhorseforum.com/index.php?...ST&f=15&t=21552

PM Nitronic or Jeff...Nitronic is in NY. Jeff is in Mass. :)

[yokomist 0]

Morning/afternoon Steve!

Thanks for the link, If i have no luck with my hitch that looks like the place to go

I just picked up the seals, and I managed to get the others out last night. It was pretty traumatic! Now I see why it would be better to do before painting lol

I also picked up new nylocks for the diff and some more gear oil. I shold be good to start re-assembling.

Did you use grease on everything as you built the gears up?

Any tips for getting the seals in place?

Thanks!

Bevan

[yokomist 0]

I also have an issue with one of the hubs...

I am not sure if the damage is going to be a problem or not. I figure it need to be on the left hand side of the tractor so the pressure is against the good side of the keyway.

Bevan

[stevasaurus 22,865]

OK then...My 857 hubs look like yours and I have had no problems. If you are just mowing and such, you will be OK. Plowing snow and spinning the tires is what stresses those hubs. No snow in Florida.

Are you ready to put this beast back together? I used a socket (1/2" drive and maybe 3/4") to tap the larger seals in place. Not sure about the size of the smaller seal scoket...maybe 5/8" Needs to be close and tap in till flush.

I only used the grease on the ends of the shafts...not much...just a light coating...the parts that fit in the bearings.

Did you put the differential back to gether yet? Make sure that the adjoining pinions are one up and the next one down. Also, when you finally place this in the case, we will be building in the shallow half of the trans, that the hex nuts are on the top. They will interfer with the main gear if they are down. Very important.

We ready? :USA:

[yokomist 0]

Alrighty here we go.

I am going to start with the diff, I will follow through on your rebuild page for that part. any grease in the diff?

Thats a good starting place right?

Bevan

[stevasaurus 22,865]

Yes... I put some on the posts and it would not hurt to have some on the pinions either., and the axle shafts. Really, anywhere you think it will be useful.

Check to be sure you can turn the axles when together. They should go in opposite directions.

[stevasaurus 22,865]

Take some pictures also Bevan. You know how we are... :wh:

[yokomist 0]

Ok I am just tightening up the diff bolts.

Pictures at every step

And then onto the seals...

[yokomist 0]

Ok here are the first set of photos: