Sparky-(Admin) 21,403 #1 Posted October 1, 2007 So Saturday afternoon the wife says lets go to the Durham Fair(Connecticut) and although I didnt want to go I said sure with a smile and off we went. Well as luck would have it Saturday afternoon was the garden tractors pulls. I watched some of the pull but had Ferris wheels to ride and stuffed animals to win so I missed most of it. No biggie. Then I hear over the loud speaker that at 6pm the tractor races would start!!!!!!!!!! The whole family was interested do we got good spots and waited. It started about 30 minutes late but man was it worth it! These things were fast, loud, and the drivers were aggressive. The fast ones were supposed to reach 60mph but the oval course was small so I would estimate they hit 30-35 mph tops, but on a small dirt track it seemed like light speed. Dirt was getting kicked up into the crowds and one guy hit the hay bales and flipped his tractor over twice coming to rest about 5 feet from the anouncers booth. He was allright. If you ever get the chance to see tractor racin DO IT! Mike......I need a faster tractor :D Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nylyon-(Admin) 7,300 #2 Posted October 1, 2007 Never seen it in person but have seen lawn mower racing on TV. When I saw it it looked like mostly MTD type tractors racing, not a whole lot of Horses, Deere's or Cubs doing the racing. Those guys really have to lean into the turns too. Must have been a hoot to see in person... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Curmudgeon 28 #3 Posted October 1, 2007 They are!!! Especially if you go to a national event, which is of course is what you probably saw on tv. The reason you didn't see any of the brands you mentioned, is the same reason we buy them. The key is racing LAWNMOWER. Being light counts, and you don't find too many light garden tractors. Racers are pretty much all vertical engined, light weight, stamped steel frame affairs. George Herron has been clocked at over 90MPH on a larger, car oval track. So yeah, they can get out and motor. On one tiny little track I saw them run, there was a radar unit set up displaying their speed. Generally speaking, 40+ MPH (lower 40's for the smaller classes, upper 40's for the faster) down the 200' straight, and sideways through the corners. Generally speaking, most drivers wear neck braces and body armor along with their helmets for their own well being. Dale Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nylyon-(Admin) 7,300 #4 Posted October 1, 2007 Man 90 MPH in my Jeep scares the bejesus out of me, couldn't imagine doing it on my BEST wheel horse let alone an MTD. Got to give those guys some credit for having some major gonads to get out there and go at those speeds with a tractor. I remember going down the driveway full blast on my 416 (a whopping 5 mph) and turning at the end. Had it going on 2 wheels had to lean in to keep from tipping over. AND THAT WAS 5 MPH (or what ever top speed is on a 416-H). I must be getting old, 30 years ago, I'd have raced a washing machine if I could... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CasualObserver 3,408 #5 Posted October 1, 2007 We were going to have races at our county fair this summer but it got rained out... I was bummed. Would have really liked to have seen that in person! Did you take any pictures? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Curmudgeon 28 #6 Posted October 1, 2007 I have, but do you think I can find them now?!?!?!?!?!??! Don't tell the boss (wife), but a friend and I did start a little project a couple years back. It somehow got put on the back burner. Since it's off site to me, and the boss (wife) doesn't know about it, I'm unable to continue. Now if you promise not to tell the boss, (wife) here is a picture: No, the front tires aren't that big, it's an optical illusion from a wide angle lens and close quarters. I did get it a little farther along towards finished before the delay came. Here's another picture showing the front end setup. Adjustable camber, caster, and a wee bit of width adjustment as well: Power would be a 12HP, 28CI Briggs vertical. Aluminum flywheels are a must, no governor, a cam, some port work, a few minor holes drilled to increase lubrication quality, a couple of other well known secrets, and with luck, you'll have approximately 40HP to work with. Found another, later, picture: Found another later picture, showing "mower deck" and such: Dale, likes to play, in Michigan Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sparky-(Admin) 21,403 #7 Posted October 2, 2007 Sorry, but no pics. I had no idea that there were even races planned for this fair(1st time going) so I was unprepared as usual. So Dale...whats with the little racer now? Is it still being "built" or is it making the rounds on the tracks. The only Wheel Horses at the race I watched were mid 70's A-100 type verticle shaft tractors. I was rootin for em but they didnt do well at all. Mike......... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Curmudgeon 28 #8 Posted October 2, 2007 It's collecting dust. I'm a builder, not a driver, and when the driver's interests changed, it went into moth balls so to speak. There was a spark of interest again, but I never heard back on that. Any vertical shaft lawn mower would work as a basis for a racer, but it's getting to be a very competitive sport. Takes a team effort to make a fast racer, chassis, engine, and driver. Don't know if team Red Horse Racing would done well or not, probably will never find out now. Oh well, that's what I do. Almost make stuff. LOL Dale Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CasualObserver 3,408 #9 Posted October 2, 2007 Well, if it's in mothballs.... I think those chrome rims would look mighty spiffy on the Lawn Ranger !! Edit: Oh, never mind... just looked again and saw they're four bolt hubs.... Oh well. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Curmudgeon 28 #10 Posted October 2, 2007 Thought about that Jason. While the bolt pattern is different, what you can't see is they are both 1" axles. Just have to bring the hubs along with the wheels. I still have hopes of seeing it race, so I'm not quite ready to start scavenging parts from it. If/when I do though, there will be some stuff for sale. I dropped a small fortune in it. Brand new transmission already race prepped. Aluminum flywheel. 1" rear axle w/bearings. Disk brake. Adjustable front axle. Well, it's a long list. Course, that was back with my other job where I made twice as much as I am now. LOL Dale, broke in Michigan Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wheelhorsepuller 1 #11 Posted October 25, 2007 I'm getting into lawnmower racing here in Southern Ontario... I'm not far from you... I having a heck of a time trying to find a Wheelhorse to build.. The charger 8 I have is not good to build into a racer.. WAY TOO HEAVY... I hope to find a later model one like yours.. I like the front end.. I hope I find one like your.. you have a ton of the same ideas as I do about how to build a racer.. BTW.. if anyone is looking for a complete 1970 Charger 8 to restore... get a hold of me.. mine has to go to make room for the racer.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nylyon-(Admin) 7,300 #12 Posted October 25, 2007 Hey, welcome back! Take a look at Craigslist in the area(s) where you are near. I have seen, in my area, several 200 series machines for sale, one of which would have been perfect for you since they were selling because of a blown engine, but I'm not sure you would want to travel that far to pick one up! I'll keep an eye out for ya and let you know if I see anything... Oh, and if that Charger was an R/T or 500 I would be more than happy to take it off your hands :D Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wheelhorsepuller 1 #13 Posted October 25, 2007 Ya no doubt.. I saw a Charger Daytona that was original and crash damaged at The Mopar Nationals for $125 000.... It's funny that Wheelhorse called this a CHarger V8 in it's brochure.... no doubt to try to increase sales..LOL It would look cool with an RT badge on it..LOL Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Curmudgeon 28 #14 Posted October 25, 2007 Just about any vertical engine Horse will fill the bill if you plan on building to the AP class, but if you want to think about SP, make sure the 28CI Briggs will fit. I had to modify the hood the get it in. Just that tiny bit of difference from the 25's does make a difference!!! For some really good information, check out http://acmemowersports.com and http://www.g-team.us/ Don's engine build video is VERY much worth it. Also, if you can attend a build clinic, do so. Lot of good ideas and know-how gets exchanged at one of these. If by chance George Herron is at one, make it a don't miss. Dale Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wheelhorsepuller 1 #15 Posted October 26, 2007 I've spent a ton of time learning chassis design and front end geometry... I just need to apply it.. And there is no way in hell I'm gonna race an MTD... not gonna happen... I really want to use a Kohler engine too... many of the older ones ran carbs like the K-Series that I am very familiar with Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CasualObserver 3,408 #16 Posted October 26, 2007 Then be on the lookout for a 1969 or 1970 Commando V8 or 1969 Charger V8... they had a kohler KV-181S... the vertical shaft engine that Kohler still doesn't admit they made. I've got a copy of the manual though!! :( Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Curmudgeon 28 #17 Posted October 26, 2007 I'm with you all the way on Kohler over Briggs! In this one instance though, I relented. Whereas yard work or pulling is about strength and heavy doesn't hurt, racing requires lightness. I've seen racers, a Wheel Horse in fact, built with a cast iron, horizontal engine, and I think he did okay. However, that is putting oneself at a disadvantage right off the bat, and being a rookie in an every growing, popular sport where competition is getting tougher all the time was enough for me. So I went with the flow on the engine, if not on the chassis. I"m not trying to talk you into anything, just what my research has told me. You'll find most people also go with a Peerless 700 transmission, as I did, but some still spin the bejesus out of a transaxle. Whichever you go with, be sure to remove the reversing chain or you'll soon be replacing your trans! Dale, in Michigan Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wheelhorsepuller 1 #18 Posted October 26, 2007 The club I want to join ( mostly because it is the closest) likes things to be simple so I can't have an adjustable front end... it has to be on piece solid front axle .. So I'm gonna make my front axle in three pieces all bolted together.. I will have different ends with different king pin inclination ( one with 10 and one with 12 degrees), and ones with different camber settings... I might make them adjustable on the caster and try to sneak through this way.. The stub ends will have different holes to correct ackerman, as well as multiple hole where the column meets the rod ends.. The stub axles will also be made extra long to allow me to adjust the scrub radius by moving the offeset of the rim in or out on the axle. One fella that had an adjustable front end like your was not allowed to race... So I'm being more sneaky about it.. http://www.soltra.ca I did notice that you are running postive camber on your tractor... since there is no movement in the front end due to squat ( because there is no suspension) you can run zero camber in the left front and a slight negative camber in the right front.. With the left rear in the air.. the front will develop negative camber because of the tractors rotating giving you a flat tire footprint. Are you not running any king pin angle.. you should have it tilted in 10 to 12 degrees in at the top to allow the lift you need to get the left rear tire off the ground in the corner.. The caster should be between 10 and 12 degrees negative caster. This de-wedges the chassis and puts the cross weight on the right rear tire.. You can also use spacers in under of over your stub axle to add or subtract cross wedge to correct over or under steer.. If you are handy to make all your own stuff.. then make a few extra stub axles with different axle heights built in .. then you can just swap them to add or subtract wedge. This will cause and oversteer condition ( loose) through the corner and can be adjusted to add more or less oversteer. If that left rear isn't in the air.. you will be fighting two locked wheels on the ground wanting to push you straight.. and every time you have to turn or jerk the wheel to get it to turn , you are scrubbing off speed... you want it to ride on the right rear tire.. I hope I've helped with your set-up.. Nice looking machine.. I hope mine turns out that good... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Curmudgeon 28 #19 Posted October 26, 2007 Umm, I don't have the time right now to digest all that, but everything is adjustable on the front end. The pictures were taken during the build process, and the final settings weren't dialed in at that time. Ummm, ever watched a lawnmower race? Obviously you have, and yes, live axles will tend to drive you straight ahead, but more often than not, the tires are already spinning, thus less likely to drive you straight. Not to mention there is very little weight on the inside tire anyway, heck, half those guys are cornering on the outside tires only anyway! Dale, headed to work!!!!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wheelhorsepuller 1 #20 Posted October 26, 2007 The only setting you have is the camber adjustable...it would lean in the tire. The pin angle would have to be built in.. The king pin should be tilted in, the axle would come off straight from the king pin level, and then the camber adjustment comes into play. The reason they are on the right tires is because of that jacking effect of the left front tire.. that's why there is limited weight on the inside left tire.. Read this for more understanding.. http://blog.kartbuilding.net/2007/07/12/st...p-for-go-karts/ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Curmudgeon 28 #21 Posted October 27, 2007 Just cause you did't see it, doesn't mean there isn't caster adjustment. There is. Like I said, fully adjustable. Dale Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wheelhorsepuller 1 #22 Posted October 27, 2007 OK.... just trying to help.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Curmudgeon 28 #23 Posted October 27, 2007 OK.... just trying to help.. Me TOO!! Dale Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
