520-(H)elp

[Shuboxlover 478]

O.k.......swapped motors FROM my HC TO my H.

The first thing I noticed, I didn't see a solenoid anywhere on my H. Is this possible?

The solenoid is right by the starter on a little separate mount plate on my HC

I CANNOT get it to turn over with the key.

I DO NOT have any spark.

The key switch is good (i tested it)

The PO had it turning over today when I picked it up, but it would never run, it fired once or twice, but he said because of the bad valve guide, it was very temperamental. So I would assume the wiring was all functional. I don't know.

I have a wiring diagram for both, but there is soooo much stuff going on there that I don't know what I need to worry about to make it run or what I can just not pay attention to.

I need to get this going ASAP as this is my only mower as of now.

Thanks

[Shuboxlover 478]

I may have posted this in the wrong section

if I did, mods....please feel free to move it.

sorry :)

[Save Old Iron 1,566]

both should have a starter solenoid energized by the ignition switch and sending +12 volts thru the starter solenoid to the starter bendix terminal - look for the light blue wire

Attached Image

[tgranthamfd 29]

Is the 25 amp fuse good, looks like it goes between the key switch and the starter relay? Thinking easy first. though.

[Kelly 1,029]

First does the starter have the solenoid mounted on it? if so did you hook the small start wire up to it?? I have 2 520's that have two soleniods on them one on the starter the other on a plate right next to it, make sure all the safty stuff is ok, PTO off?? ect....

[Shuboxlover 478]

O.K.....

I am VERY VERY VERY FRUSTRATED

The motor from the HC had 2 solenoids on it, one on the starter, and one on a little plate beside the starter. The H motor just had one on the starter.

I ended up switching the engine wiring harness around. So the HC motor in the H has the H wiring harness on it. I did this because the wiring wasn't matching up between the H tractor harness and the HC engine harness. I hope you can follow me.

So I got everything hooked up, I am now only using ONE solenoid (on the starter).

I didn't hook up the oil pressure lines on the H harness because there was no place to hook it up. Which leads me to another question. On the HC engine, there is ONE white wire that disappears down through the top of the motor by the coil. What might this be for? I had to cut it so I could get the HC harness off and put the H harness on. I did NOT hook this wire up either, don't know if it matters.

When I turn the key, I can hear a relay click, but the motor doesn't turn over.

Turned into a bigger project than I was hopping :wh:

[Shuboxlover 478]

when I measure the purple (pink) wire from the fuse block to ground at the start relay, I get 13.6vdc.

when I try and start the tractor, I do NOT get voltage on the light blue wire, does this mean this relay is bad, or could there be something else causing this relay to not work.

can someone explain to me how all three relays work in conjunction with each other?

I REALLY REALLY REALLY need to get this going ASAP. :)

[TT-(Moderator) 1,131]

I REALLY REALLY REALLY need to get this going ASAP.

IF you managed to hook all of the other wires up correctly, momentarily connect a jumper wire between the large post where the battery cable attaches at the starter solenoid and the small spade (trigger) terminal on the solenoid.

Make sure you have the brake set and no one is standing in front or behind the tractor when you do this!

You can sort out the actual problem when you get more time - since all hurrying does is create more problems.

[Shuboxlover 478]

IF you managed to hook all of the other wires up correctly.

Make sure you have the brake set and no one is standing in front or behind the tractor when you do this!

I am fairly certain I hooked them up right. That part was pretty trivial. except the oil pressure switch on the H harness. Can I just leave that unhooked? Then there is also the issue with the lone white wire on the HC motor...what's that do?

I have the belt all the way off, so a runaway tractor should not be an issue.

how come when I jump across the two large studs on the solenoid, it doesn't do anything? :)

[Kelly 1,029]

Are you sure you have a good ground to the engine?? I put my ground cable right on one of the engine mounting bolts.

[Shuboxlover 478]

When I used a jumper wire, some of the times it would sound like the starter would begin to engage for a split second, and then sometimes a relay would start chattering... that's about all that happened, it didn't try and start or anything.

[Shuboxlover 478]

Are you sure you have a good ground to the engine?? I put my ground cable right on one of the engine mounting bolts.

Yes, my ground from the battery goes directly to the left rear mounting ear on the engine.

[Save Old Iron 1,566]

Then there is also the issue with the lone white wire on the HC motor...what's that do?

Doesn't do anything if it's not hooked up !!

Sorry - could resist that.

If it is consistent with my 89' wiring, trace it back to the 30 amp fuse holder - it is the B+ output from the RR unit.

You may not have to worry about that yet as you can't get the engine to crank over.

Don't overlook a dead or poor battery in all of this rush (or corroded 30+ year old battery cables). With a chattering solenoid, you are not supplying enough power to the solenoid / starter to even keep the solenoid engaged. And that requires less than 1/2 amp at 12 volts to keep from chattering.

[Shuboxlover 478]

The battery and the cables are from my HC which I was using all spring/summer long, so I would have to think that they are O.K. I measure 13.6vdc at the solenoind

[Save Old Iron 1,566]

I say at this point go for jumper cables - one side to the battery and the other side directly to the starter + and -

If that does not spin the engine, then you have narrowed it down to the battery, cables, starter, or locked engine.

We have to get the engine cranking directly off the battery and work back from there.

[Shuboxlover 478]

O.k....I'm not an idiot, I SWEAR!!!!!!

I have the other end of the jumper cables hooked up to the battery (Red on + Black on -) I have 13.6Vdc at the other end of the jumper cables.

This is correct, right?

When I touch the + side of the cable to the terminal on the right (the one with the little white wire going down to the trigger) it sparks just a little and nothing happens

I tried this on both of the starters I have and it did the same thing. How could I fry two starters? I did swap them yesterday because I didn't know what else it could be. BOTH STARTERS WERE WORKING, I AM 100000% SURE. The one I have been using since the spring, and the other one was working, because the PO cranked the motor over when I got there to pick it up.

WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

Attached Image (Click thumbnail to expand)

[refracman 167]

I would suggest you take a break at this point because if your like me, something will be broken shortly!

Most likely both starters are good. What yr is the harness your useing? If you could get someone to take pics of the correct yr tractor engine wireing it should help determining where they go. I have a 90 416 onan if you want pics of it I'll send them to you.

edit: wire harness 88-90 520 p #nn10294 91-95 520 p# nn10553

[Shuboxlover 478]

something will be broken shortly!

TOO LATE!!!!!! MY PRIDE IS BROKEN!!!!!!!!!

In the hopes of clarifying things..... The 1991 520-H which I am trying to get running, has the motor from the 1989 520-HC ONLY. no wiring, nothing else from the other tractor.

Thanks for all that are helping, sorry if I seem a bit short NOTHING is more frustrating and discouraging that something that SHOULD be easy but isn't. I can't take a break from this because I have to get it running as it is my only mowing unit right now. PLUS it's taking up all my garage space (which the wife is REALLY appreciative of)

[Shuboxlover 478]

IT'S ALIVE!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks to everyone who helped, but a HUGE ENORMOUS to Steve (a.k.a. refracman) He's was nice enough to lend me a hand over the phone.

The problem was....after allllllll this

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

A BAD BATTERY It was the same battery I'd been using all year, but with all the messing around I have done must have drained it, and since Steve laughed at me when I told him what size it was I guess I'm off to buy a new battery.

THANKS AGAIN!!!!!!!

[pumper.atv 26]

good to hear that you found the problem :)

[Brrly1 1,146]

I knew he was good for something. But I have had a hard time figuring it out. Way to go Steve. What time are we headed to SCRAP tomorrow? See Ya, Bye

Burly

:USA:

[Save Old Iron 1,566]

Please,

Read it,

Learn it,

Live it.

For less than $20 plus tax, you would have found the real issue within the first 10 minutes of troubleshooting.

This tool provides the ability to make one less assumption that something that worked "last week" or "last month" is still functional "right now".

Don't ASSUME anything while troubleshooting a problem - even working a problem that should be simple.

Anyone who has equipment using lead acid batteries should SERIOUSLY consider buying one.

http://www.wheelhorseforum.com/index.php?...topic=19066&hl=

[Shuboxlover 478]

:)

[refracman 167]

I'm glad I could help out and your up and running :)

[Shuboxlover 478]

Hey Steve, I go to Detroit once every year (Carlton to be exact) in July, next year I should look you up, I would LOVE to see your collection.