Let the restoration begin

[dgjks6 6]

So I finally got the momentum going to start on the restoration of a c-85 that I got a while ago. I really have no idea what I am doing - so I am counting on everyone out there for help - step by step if necessary.

I figure this project will take a long time and cost some money - so I am going to try to keep track of everything.

Now there are no set plans for the final product yet, as far as colors and engine - but we will get to that later.

First today is DAY#1

Cost so far

$375 (I think - memory is a little rough now) for the tractor. Not sure how to put this in because it came with a working 37inch snowblower and a new 36inch rear discharge deck. Lets say the deck is worth $100 and the blower worth $150. That puts me at $125 for the tractor.

Turns out the motor was blown. Kind of suspected that going in.

Well we dissambled the motor and found the rod in pieces, the crank journal is scuffed, and the cam was broken.

Also in the dissambly process we broke the bearing plate.

So I ordered a k181 bearing plate off a John Deere (lets say $15) = and I find out that it is the wrong part - so then I order a bearing plate from a k181 wheel horse ($20) and get the correct part

Then I order a k181 cam - from ebay of course - for about $20

Total invested so far = $180

[dgjks6 6]

So the story continues...

Then a guy from the site here needs a drive pulley for a k181 - and I thought at the time I was going to increase the motor size - so I figured I didn't need a stinkin 1 inch pulley - so I sent it to him for christmas.

Then a friend with a 312 looses an axle from his transmission - so I give him the one from the c-85 - which was the only thing on the tractor that worked - and take the broken one off his hands - even trade.

so here are the pictures now:

TRACTOR IN PIECES

A BOX OF PARTS - NOTHING LABELED of course

Now for the fun part - and is just a glimpse of the future and how everything for me always goes...

I posted about fixing the trans and someone said get a vice - or a workmate bench - so I went to home depot this morning and got one ($30).

Then my son and I lifted the transmission on the workmate. Turns out there are two holes on the top that if you put the transmission on its side pour out gear oil. All over my garage floor and my son.

Prior to moving it the transmission would not shift into reverse or low - and the boot is in bad shape.

So as of today

tractor and parts - $180

tools - $30

sons pants - $20 (thats all he is getting for a new pair - I don't care if they were his favorite jeans - he would outgrow them soon enough anyway.

[Save Old Iron 1,566]

Great post

I'm in for helping out with any wiring or electrics issues.

I just stripped down a C175 to nuts and bolts so I'll be following along with you.

Bet your done before I am :D

[dgjks6 6]

OK - so here is the plan

1. fix trans

2. fix motor

3. put back together

4. repaint it in the process

5. keep track of time and money

6. have father son/daughter bonding time

7. try not to anger the wife too much

So what is the next step?

I did get the transmission manual, but I have to ask:

brake side down?

do I have to take the brake off?

What is my next step?

[Save Old Iron 1,566]

and go out to Auto Zone and buy a galvanized oil drip pan to put under the WorkMate. It will catch all the drippings during the cleanup process.

Best $10 you'll ever spend.

[rickv1957 72]

Looks like a great project!,Rick

[JimD 3,345]

I'm working on a C85 at the moment also. Here's a link to the thread.

http://www.wheelhorseforum.com/index.php?showtopic=18688

I'll follow along with your progress too, maybe I'll learn something along the way, and maybe I can offer some tips too. Keep pluggin away, you'll get there. :D

[dgjks6 6]

I have been following your thread. Yours looks great. I hope mine just runs one day.

Well - I have already broke goal #7 - wife is mad.

This story starts a few months ago when I was told I needed new front hubs on my grand prix - for a tune of $450 EACH. So I thought I can do this myself and got online to fiure out how to do it. They recommended getting a hub puller - so off I went to ebay and spent $40 on a universal hub puller.

Turns out universal means all hubs except the ones on my grand prix. So it has been sitting in my garage for 6 months and today I got the transmission up and saw the hub puller and had an idea.

So when my wife got home from work she said she was going to bed. I said goodnight and kept hitting the hub puller with the sledge - and made a lot of progress believe it or not. But man - I still have a way to go.

So it turns out telling her goodnight and continuing to work on the transmission was not the correct answer. Who knew?

So anyway - I assume the hub has to come off? Correct? or is there a way to keep it on and still split the case?

Oh-and the drive pulley just slipped off.

Anyway - off to bed.

[TT-(Moderator) 1,145]

I did get the transmission manual, but I have to ask:

brake side down?

do I have to take the brake off?

Input shaft side goes down. (the thicker half with the main shifter is the one you need to lift off)

Since it looks like you have an axle that's already falling out, it should be very easy.

If you intend to install new seals, the brake drum has to come off.

[chris11 184]

:D i love this part

[dgjks6 6]

I did get the transmission manual, but I have to ask:

brake side down?

do I have to take the brake off?

Input shaft side goes down. (the thicker half with the main shifter is the one you need to lift off)

Since it looks like you have an axle that's already falling out, it should be very easy.

If you intend to install new seals, the brake drum has to come off.

Thank you TT

So I have it upside down? And I took the hub off the working side for no reason? And I spilled oil all over my garage and son for no reason?

It figures.

I promise I am going to look at the instrucions I have prined up and put in a nice binder to prevent just an occurence.

[stoneman 10]

So as of today

tractor and parts - $180

tools - $30

sons pants - $20 (thats all he is getting for a new pair - I don't care if they were his favorite jeans - he would outgrow them soon enough anyway.

ahhhhhh, but the value of doing my first wheel horse restoration with my son . . . priceless! :D

[Duff 206]

Hey, Greg! At least you've still got a sense of humor about all this!

OK - the tranny. Mess or no, now that you've started into it you might as well go all the way. Split it and carefully check the bearings, gears and seals. The bearings (except for the big ones the axles pass through) aren't all that expensive, nor are the seals. If anything even seems loose or rough, replace it. Look carefully at the shifter fork for the hi-lo. These are thin to begin with and over time they do wear. The fork in the tranny out of my #2 312-8 was so thin I was amazed it hadn't snapped. You'll thank yourself down the road when you don't have to pull the tranny and split it for another 20 years!

Pulling both hubs anyway, checking the keyways and replacing the keys is probably a pretty good idea as well, and you do need to pull them to replace the axle seals which is almost a given during any tranny tear-down. So no, you didn't do anything you shouldn't have!

Parts and pieces everywhere! Brings back fond memories....and now that I think of it, #3 312-8 is kinda scattered about. I've just hidden things in boxes and stuffed them under benches so I'm not falling all over them.

I'll be watching this thread with great interest!

Duff

[dgjks6 6]

Great post

I'm in for helping out with any wiring or electrics issues.

I just stripped down a C175 to nuts and bolts so I'll be following along with you.

Bet your done before I am

Want to race to see who is the slowest? No, that can't be right. I hope to be done before winter. I need a back up tractor fot the snow blower.

Do you have a time frame in mind?

[Save Old Iron 1,566]

Want to race to see who is the slowest? No, that can't be right. I hope to be done before winter. I need a back up tractor fot the snow blower.

All of my Wheel Horse activity is strictly a spare time project. I have "other tractors" that are fully capable of perfectly manicuring the lawn. pulling a plow or digging ditches with a backhoe / front loader.

I'm using the Wheel Horses as a learning experience. I buy or acquire broken pieces that I fix. If a shaft is worn I put it on a lathe. Sheet metal needs work, out comes the dollies and hammers. Broken frame, I just bought a welder and going to try my hand at welding. Bodywork, fiberglass work and paint - I'm learning it as I go. Some of it like the lathe and paint is relearning from years past - bodywork and welding is new to me.

So use the experience to learn a few extra skills and you will not regret taking a few side trips off the main rebuilding path. Of course I do have the pure luxury of a "other tractors" at my disposal.

I too will be watching this post with great interest - especially the $$$ total.

[oldandred 15]

So I have it upside down? And I took the hub off the working side for no reason? And I spilled oil all over my garage and son for no reason?

whats a little oil on the floor Hummmmmmm unless youre BP

[dgjks6 6]

Day #3 - had to work all day yesterday and last night. Just got home and decided to continue work. Got the hub off.

Is this a problem? It is from the hub puller. If you can't tell what the damage is, the axle shaft has a dent in th top of it.

Then took off the boot and took out the set screw for the shifter. I was about 1mm in. Is that normal? Is it broken? How do I get the shifter off?

Oh - and for anyone out there who has never worked on a transmission before I have some advice:

DRAIN THE FLUID FIRST

So as it sits right now:

So to summarize

1-do I need a new axle?

2-how do you get the shifter off? pull hard? Is part of the bolt still stuck in there?

[dgjks6 6]

guys stay with me here.

I am new at this and this may become an entertaining blog for what not to do, but I am going to keep going.

So I took out the screws that hold the case together. Ths instructions say separate halves. um. ok.

Can I separate them without getting the shifter off?

How do I get the two halves apart? Use a screwdriver? I don't want to brake the case.

[JimD 3,345]

You can use a rubber mallet to tap around the case to break the seal between the halves. The shifter should come out with one half of the case, but the pics of the set screw kinda look like the tip may be broken off and still in the case. Hard to tell with the pics being kinda fuzzy. Once you have it apart you may be able to tell if there is a piece left in the case holding the shifter.

[CasualObserver 3,408]

The shifter set screw is called a dog point screw. You can see a good picture in this old thread. http://www.wheelhorseforum.com/index.php?showtopic=11107 I don't see the point on yours, it's probably stuck in there. You have to remove it first before separating the case halves. The shift lever is in between the shift forks, and you won't be able to lift the top half off while the shift lever is in place. (At least not without causing one hell of a mess.) :D

[dgjks6 6]

oops.

So I did the mallet thing - except with a padded steel mallet. And got the case split.

And caused one hell of a mess.

There are gears everwhere.

One is at an angle, one popped out, and the shifter fork is out also.

But I did find the problem.

Axle cracked. And it is stuck in the top half of the case that came off. Guess I need a new one. How do I get the axle out? Pull?

Also the set screw that holds the shifter is broken in the case.

When wife gets home with the camera I'll get more pictures.

Any ideas how to get the screw out?

It is day 3 and everyone out there is thinking - Greg - stop it before you hurt yourself or the transmission - but I will not quit.

[dgjks6 6]

Oh man this is getting good.

Stay tuned for pictures.

So I pounded the axle out of the case. The end of the axle sheared off and is stuck in the differential.

This I did not cause because the axle was already pulled out when I got the transmission.

And for everyone not closely following - remember I traded a perfectly good transmission for this one.

[dgjks6 6]

Daughter got home and i used her camera

Here are the pictures you have been waiting for.

Axle

Inside the differential

the stuck dog screw

And the last, but not least - the mess

OK - so what is the next step?

And quitting is not an option.

[The Toolman 22]

I'd make a parts tractor outta this one. Your gonna have so much $ in it.....woo hoo.....dang sure don't let your wife see how much your spending if you do decide to rebuild it.

Buy another good running one, an use this one for parts, sell what ya don't need...

[Duff 206]

I have to disagree with Ronnie on this one. You're well on your way to a decent rebuild, and the education is priceless!

Someone with more expertise will tell you how to extract the broken axle piece from the diff, but I'm sure it's doable. The dog screw can probably be taken out with an EZ-out. From what I can see in the picture, those gears and the shifter fork look OK. One very good thing I see is no visible rust inside the tranny or on the gears - that's always a huge plus, and it may mean some or all of your bearings are still OK. Seals will still need to be replaced - not a biggie.

Finish pulling the gears out and carefully clean them and the inside of the tranny case. Might as well plan on pulling the diff apart completely (probably will have to to get the broken axle piece out) for cleaning as well.

We're with you all the way on this one.....

Duff :D