314A-H Hydro slow to a crawl after warm

[nekovt 0]

Hi Everyone, I have 3 Wheel Horse tractors (2 310-8s and 1 314-H-A). the 314-H will be move very nicely until it gets warm (Looks like about 30 minutes).

My brother recommended I try clearing out some fan (This tractor is pack with leaves etc, my neighbor gave it to me) in the back.

If the tractor is really powerful when cold, I'd be suprised if the Hydro pump is going bad, but maybe it's possible.

Has anyone run in to this?

Thanks!

Brad

[Duff 206]

Brad, I think your brother may be onto something - yes, do clean out all the junk around the tranny area so it gets good cooling airflow. I don't know much about the auto trannies but anything that overheats is bound to act up at some point!

Duff :D

[HankB 16]

You can use 10W30 or 10W40 in the trans on those. Might be a good idea to try 10W40. Also check to make sure the PO did not put ATF in it. If they did, you probably need to do two oil changes to make sure you get all of it out.

You can go to https://lookup3.toro.com/request/request.cfm and download manuals for your tractor. The hydro manual should have some troubleshooting info.

Good luck!

[nekovt 0]

Thanks for the replies! So it's possible if the wrong oil is in the Hydro system, it would slow to a crawl after being warm. It was hard to believe the pump is bad because before my neighbor gave it to me, he showed me how it could go backwards, then forwards fast enough to pick the wheels up off the ground. So it seems like it's very strong! Thanks! I'm going to check out the manual!

[HankB 16]

So it's possible if the wrong oil is in the Hydro system, it would slow to a crawl after being warm.

ATF is thinner than 10W30 or 10W40. As it warms it thins out further and becomes harder to maintain pressure.

I have heard of units that perform well when cold and not so well when warm. Usually it is something like an acceleration valve or check valve sticking. But I'd check and change the fluid first because that's easier.

[wh500special 2,235]

My experience with Eaton transmissions is that either they work, or they don't. But what you have sounds, to me, like a transmission that is on its way out.

I assume the tractor is a 314-A and has the Eaton 7 (or 700, I can never remember the nomenclature) hydro unit. If there is a large plastic cap under the seat, it's a 7. If it has an oil filter under the fender on one side, it is the much heavier duty Eaton 1100 (11).

I think all the 314 hydros had the 7. As did the early 312-A's and the 516/518. They weren't rated for ground engaging or super heavy use.

Clean the transmission thoroughly on the outside. Take special care not to get any dirt or water inside the transmission. Once clean, change the fluid in the transmission and transaxle and repeat your warmup experiment. If it still loses power it is probably the fault of excessive internal transmission wear that allows oil to bypass and not develop appropriate pressure.

All is not lost even if the transmission is shot. Your investment in the tractor is nil and finding a suitable replacement transmission or whole rear end assembly isn't that hard to do. Or, you have a great source of parts to keep your 310's chugging along.

Best of luck.

Steve

[nekovt 0]

Hi Steve, Thanks for your ideas. I will clean it, it's full of leaves etc. It does have a cap under the seat, so it must be the Eaton 7 & this is a 314-A. I noticed that the fluid level is way to high and it seems to leak out of the cap, I started to read about what kind of fluid it needs - the book says SAE 20, but then there's a bulletin that says SAE 30 (May be the other way around). As in my 310-8s, the transaxles take 10-30, but what to put in to the Hydro unit?

If he put in SAE20 and didn't change the oil, then he would have had the crawling/warming problem all along. It runs really great for 30-40 minutes.

Update: I've been doing some reading on line, searching for things like Hydro static repair or exchange. I've been seeing that a lot of people have been saying that if it slows to a crawl when it's warm, it means that there's oil bypassing in side and there for needs a rebuild.

Does anyone know of a good place that offers rebuilding or exchanges?

Thanks!

Brad

[kpinnc 12,442]

Does anyone know of a good place that offers rebuilding or exchanges?

Find a good spot to sit down...

Someone here may find something better, but the best I have ever found (which no longer carries Eaton BTW) was $350 for an exchange. Even then you were getting a "re-manufactured" pump with a 12 month warranty. The cheapest new 700-series pumps I've ever seen ran about $750.

You may want to search online for miniature ride-on train hobbyists. Many of them use Eaton pumps coupled to a small gas engine or even electric motors. My apologies for not remembering any of the sites. It's been years since I looked for them.

Personally, if I were in your situation, I would look for a 300/400/500 series hydro that has hydraulic lift , and a known good rear end in it- even if the engine is bad or missing. Those models will have the 1100 series pump in it, which is a MUCH larger and more powerful hydro (3 times the output torque per Eaton's numbers). It would be cheaper to convert your tractor to hydraulic lift than it would be to purchase a new 700 series pump. Of course, that's just an opinion.

Good luck regardless. Hydros are great (I have 6 of them) until the rear end goes out.

Kevin

[nekovt 0]

HI Everyone, Thank you for your thoughts. I tried cleaning the transmission (It was packed with dirt/leaves etc). That didn't do it. I drained the fluid and put 50W in, same results. So it looks like I'll have to see if I can get a rebuild or this one repaired. I did notice that the 700 series is lighterweight and I'll see if I can find an Eaton 1100 some place - it would be better to have the heavier duty pump. Will the eaton 11 fit right in where the 7 was with no other modifications? Does anyone have any idea where I could find a used 11 or maybe a place that would take my 7 core in exchange? Thanks!! Brad

[dobeleo 7]

I pulled my pump apart when I rebuilt my 312-A. It had the 700 Series Pump. It is a really simple design. All you have is the roller pump, a collapsing outer sleave that directs the flow to through the check valves to the hydraulic motor. It is simple to take apart, clean and put back together. There are online manuals showing alot of pics to see what you are getting into. There are no internal seals except around the drive shaft.

Once you take it apart, it will be obvious how it works.

You could easliy take it apart, clean it and have it back together in an hour.

Good luck!