520H starter help

[firedigger 0]

Not sure if the starter is bad or not. Fully charged battery, turn ignition switch, clicking and buzzing like a bad solenoid? Pulled starter off, put on bench, wired with the same battery and it spun right up. Cleaned it off, put it back on, same problem. Buzz..clicks and a clunk when the gear engages the flywheel. Then wired to directly to the battery, bypassing the tractor's electronics; it does the same thing, no turn over the engine. Will a starter motor turn on the bench, but lack sufficient strength to turn the engine over? Engine is not frozen, runs very well. Not a whole lot of experience, thought I'd ask for some guidance from the pros. Thanks in advance. :omg:

[Bow_Extreme 544]

For starters check the fuse block next to the battery. This is a bad place for open fuses and dirty melted electrical connections. Make sure the ground cables and battery connections are all clean. I'm betting on the fuse block.

[firedigger 0]

Got it. Will do tomorrow, and thank you for your help, Bow_Extreme.

[firedigger 0]

Ok, checked every wire, fuse, connection, you name it. Continuity checks, no melted wire, blown fuses, nothing weird. Put on new starter, same exact problem. Put in new battery, didn't help at all. Then connected the new battery directly to the starter with remote switch, nothing. Pulled the plugs, thinking maybe water in the cylinders. Gents, the brand new starter will not turn the engine over even without the plugs in and directly connected to a battery. Starter will engage the flywheel, turn about 1/8 of a turn the stop. The solenoid then starts clicking. Even tried a battery charger on engine start mode, same exact thing. The motor is not seized, and this will occur regardless of where the flywheel is positioned. This is too good of a machine to give up on, and I could really use some ideas. Thanks.

[Duff 206]

Firedigger, I don't have any insights to offer, but I am sure others will be along to help you out. Now that the weather is getting better a lot of us aren't checking the forum quite as often as we did during the winter but bear with us - someone will be along to help! The 520 is way to good a machine to give up on!

Duff :omg:

[refracman 167]

Can you turn the engine over by hand? If not maybe the magnets have come loose from the flywheel

I have seen this with older kohlers.

I dont mess with onans that much so I cant tell you if the same thing happens to them also.

[Save Old Iron 1,566]

Firedigger,

with an multimeter set for DC volts (20v scale is fine)

connect one lead to the negative lead of the BATTERY TERMINAL and the other to the metal casing (ground) of the starter.

Try to start. If you see a high voltage on the meter (several volts), you have a high resistance ground path from the battery terminal to the starter ground. You have just measured a large voltage drop across a pathway that should have virtually no resistance. Without a doubt , this would indicate a bad ground connection to the engine.

You could also check this pathway with the ohmmeter but you will need to disconnect the - battery cable from the battery and ohm out from the negative BATTERY CABLE to the starter case. A high resistance would indicate your loosing your ground connection to the engine or thru the engine the starter case.

A third alternative is to connect a heavy gauge jumper wire from the starter mounting bolt directly to the negative battery terminal. If it spins now, you have a ground wire issue to investigate.

[firedigger 0]

Thanks for the help, gents! I guess I wasn't very clear. The starter is directly wired to a battery; there is no wiring from the tractor involved in this test. The negative terminal is wired directly to the engine at the mounting plate, the positive terminal is wired directly to the positive stud on the starter with a jumper wire and switch for the solenoid. However, I have not tested the resistance to see if the new starter might have an issue or I didn't get the ground secure, so I'll add it to the list for later this evening. Might see if I can get the negative lead to a starter bolt...

Yes, the engine spins freely. With the spark plugs removed, I can spin it with one finger. One of those "It ran fine the last time..." which was 4 months ago. Sanity can be a friend of mine on occasion, but this is testing that friendship considerably!

Please, keep 'em coming! Thank you, again.

[Save Old Iron 1,566]

When you apply voltage to the starter, does the starter pinion engaged with the flywheel - everytime ??

I understand it may not spin the flywheel, but does it at least engage withthe flywheel on every try ?

[firedigger 0]

save_old_iron, no it does not. Sometimes it doesn't do anything at all, sometimes I can hear the solenoid clicking (gear engages the flywheel) and sometimes it will try to turn the motor. I guess that's part of the frustrating bit, there is no consistency. I can have all three occur with nothing more than pushing the remote switch; no movement of wires or adjustments. I have turned the motor by hand through eight complete revolutions with no binding, clanks, bangs or other issues, so I do not suspect an internal motor problem; just electrical. From the sound of your questions, you might have an idea Thank you.

[jpmcleod 4]

I wasn't going to jump in on this one but let me share a similar problem. I have a 20 hp Onan and they do not have a compresson relief.

I went through two starters and had the same problem you are having. The starters had the nylon gears and they would not turn the flywheel. I spent a little more money and purchased a starter with a metal gear and I have not had any more problems. My also sounded as thought the pistons were stuck, but the starter with the steel gear solved my problem. This may not be your problem, but it was mine.

[TT-(Moderator) 1,131]

Try connecting a jumper wire from the large post (battery cable connection) on the starter solenoid to the small post on the solenoid where the "trigger" wire attaches. (unplug the trigger wire to expose the blade terminal)

If the starter functions correctly, use a meter to check the DC volts at the trigger wire when the ignition switch is in the start position. The solenoid-shift starters used on the P series Onans are very particular about having 12VDC or more at the trigger terminal.

If the voltage is less than 10 or 11, they seem to develop "click-itis".

Corrosion at the 9 pin connector and/or safety switch(es) will cause the voltage loss.

[Save Old Iron 1,566]

I wish my 520 was not nosed into the remote corner of my workshop waiting for a total rewire. - I can't see if there is a ground strap that goes between the motor mount and the motor. If you can connect the negative battery lead directly to the starter case, so much the better.

Maybe somebody has a picture of that area and I won't have to put tires back on the beast to push her back center stage onto the shop floor.

TT said "click-itis". I'd go with his advice on this one as it is very likely if you have a less than perfect battery which is not fully charged.

[firedigger 0]

Hello again... I checked the voltage at the trigger wire, ~15 volts. The starter is directly wired to a battery, check to make SURE of the ground, get ~15 volts(positive post to negative post). So I think to myself "Self, you didn't disconnect the drive belt." So, I take the drive belt off, wondering if the problem is in the hydraulic pump. Nope. Gents, there is now nothing, zip, zero, nada attached the motor, the spark plugs are pulled, the motor spins freely and I have completely bypassed all the of tractor wiring. I even hooked up the battery charger/ starter again, did not make any difference. I'm out of ideas, unless the new starter is bad too. Thank you all for your help, and if I missed something or someone has an idea, please let it out!

[Save Old Iron 1,566]

maybe you just landed on a "dead spot" on the current starter

maybe a tap or two with a hammer might free up a stuck brush in the starter

[papaglide 542]

Nothing to add regarding this problem and I am sorry if this isn't the right place to post but I feel that it may be ok: I am in the process of buying one of these 520H's...is the kind of electrical problem that I can look forward too? It is kind of scaring me away from the purchase. :D

[TT-(Moderator) 1,131]

Mike,

520 or not, things go bad, wear out, leak, and break. Some of the guys on here fail to remember that even the newest 520 is now 13+ years old and could have been subjected to less-than-adequate care. Even with the proper care, they will still need wear items replaced.

Buy a Wheel Horse at a decent price, go over the entire machine before you start using it, and correct the problems you can find before they sneak up and kick your butt while trying to mow or plow snow on a Sunday afternoon.

The beauty of these things is - even with the additional "bells & whistles" (lights, gauges, bigger engines, hydros, etc.) you find on the newer models, they still basically the same old tractor that popped up on the market some 49-odd years ago.

No offense to anyone, but a lot of these problems are minor and could be fixed in no time by someone who is familiar with the machinery and the techniques to repair them. (including the tricks and shortcuts) Someone who doesn't have the proper test equipment, facilities, and tools can turn a 15 minute fix into a week of drinking, bloody knuckles, swearing, and 100 posts on this forum.

Buy the 520 with confidence and don't look back. You have a whole bunch of guys on here that will help you outsmart it if it starts giving you problems. :D

[papaglide 542]

Thanks Terry. I have until Friday to "show'em the money"...$400.

[Save Old Iron 1,566]

Firedigger

I never get tired of asking this because its soooooo important to learn how to use one

Do you have a multimeter?

As TT said above, without the proper tools, a 15 minute fix can turn into a high dollar swap fest.

If you have a multimeter, I would be happy to assist you in troubleshooting your problem, not guessing and throwing parts at it.

Let em know.

[firedigger 0]

Yep, I have a multimeter. Ears are open, mind in receive mode, ready to learn.

[firedigger 0]

Oh, and Mike, I really don't care what the problem my 520 has. It is frustrating because it doesn't make sense, but there isn't enough money to buy this tractor off of me. Best investment in machinery I ever made. It has tires, therefore it'll break, rule #10 of the Universe. Wheel Horse's are absolutely the best machines out there, mine is 14 years old and this is the first time I ever have had any issue with it.

[kk4et 0]

the clip on connector wire that comes from the relay,(goes to the starter) this has 2 large post for connectors, with key engaged put a screw driver or pliers accross the 2 large terminals if the starter engages then this relay is bad just changed it on my 520-HC

[firedigger 0]

Update... In an effort to try and keep the jungle down while figuring this out, I resigned myself to using our old Troy Built Pony (MTD P.O.$). Moved the new battery over to it and ... there is no such thing as coincidence. Pushed the WH over to my truck, hooked up the jumper cables and viola, she lives! So, bad battery (brand new) plus bad battery charger (brand new) equals more gray hair (somewhat new). I can't tell you how much it hurts to have to admit this, but I should have thought of it sooner and just didn't. When the starter acts like it isn't getting enough juice, then it isn't getting enough juice regardless of what I have hooked up to it. Gents, thank you so much for your help and guidance. Yep, have all this printed off and in the book so I don't have to come back later with the same questions (Heaven forbid!). Thanks again.

[mavfreak 11]

:D

[Don1977 604]

The battery charger is most likely good. A lot of them will not charge a battery if it is too dead. The only way to test a battery is with a load tester. Here is one:

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/battery-t...N-b8a?op=search