Lawnmower Class Action Settlement

[perry 82]

https://lawnmowerclass.com/

If You Purchased a Lawn Mower with a Gas Engine up to

30 Horsepower from January 1, 1994 to April 12, 2010,

You Could Receive Benefits from Class Action Settlements.

The lawsuit claims that the Defendants sold certain gasoline-powered lawn mowers and lawn mower engines with false and misleading horsepower ratings. The Defendants deny these claims and deny that they did anything wrong. The lawsuit does not concern the safety of these lawn mowers. The parties have agreed to resolve this case by settlement.

The Court did not decide in favor of Plaintiffs or Defendants. The attorneys have investigated the facts and applicable law regarding the Class Representatives

[jla1257 2]

This lawsuit stems from the publics need and craving for more horsepower. Really, who has enough chores around their yard for a 25 hp lawn tractor? To satisfy the publics horse power craving small engine manufactures rate them as high as they possibly can tweaking and tuning to increase the bhp (brake horsepower) as high as they possibly can. The general public not knowing the difference between bhp and hp assume after going through the hydraulic pump, alternator, transmission, around belts and through gears that the crankshaft horsepower should be the same as advertised. Horsepower is a measurement of work done over time or the power required to lift 33,000 lbs. one foot in one minute. This definition is used because it excludes all the factors that zap hp such as transmissions and ground friction

[Coadster32 793]

Very good point JLA1257. Even in motorcycles hp is rated at the motor and not at the wheel. When I ask the dealer hp, they don't tell me. I have to use dyno measurements to get the answer. A dyno measures at the wheel, or brake hp. What might the brake hp be in a 5.5hp motor in first gear at 108-1 ratio?? (alot more than 5.5hp I suspect).

[Roger from southern Iowa 1]

This is very interesting to me.

I'm curious how the owners of the involved machines will/would be informed about this lawsuit.......

I'm sure we all know lots of people who are in this group of consumers.

[W9JAB 156]

You will notice that small engines are not rated by horsepower anymore,

just cc displacement, I wonder if the suite has anything to do with that?

[wh500special 2,188]

Some people will sue over anything. I've just assumed that recently manufacturers were advertising an intermittent/peak HP value that can only be acheived momentarilly. Years ago, perhaps HP was measured at some reasonable duty cycle. The only place I could see the errant HP figures causing a problem would be if somebody had improvised some kind of PTO driven attachment (think: generator) to an underpowered engine and then realized it doesn't have the "staying power" you'd expect from the rating.

Or, some engineer-turned-attorney wanted to flex his technical knowledge in his newfound profession and saw the engine makers as an easy target.

There MUST be more to this case than we know about.

What might the brake hp be in a 5.5hp motor in first gear at 108-1 ratio?? (alot more than 5.5hp I suspect).

It only depends on efficiency. If 100% efficient, then you'd also have 5.5 hp at the wheel. If 50%, then it would be 2.75 hp. I think you're confusing torque with HP.

In that case, let's say your 5.5 hp engine makes 6 lbf-ft of torque at some given engine speed of, say, 3600 rpm. With a gear multiplication of 108:1 (and commensurate speed reduction) the torque could be as high as 6x108 = 648 ft-lbf. But the output speed of the wheel is 33.3 rpm.

Here, hp is essentially the product of rpm X torque x some constant. It will remain constant (ignoring efficiency losses) regardless of gear ratio.

(33.3rpm)(648ft-lbf)(constant)=(3600rpm)(6ft-lbf)(constant)

Steve

PS-I am approximating 6ft-lbf @ 3600 rpm as being what a 5.5hp could churn out...I really don't know what their actual output might be.

[Duff 206]

This is very interesting to me.

I'm curious how the owners of the involved machines will/would be informed about this lawsuit.......

I'm sure we all know lots of people who are in this group of consumers.

Funny this topic came up today here on RS. I read it early this morning and at noon when my wife picked up our mail from the in town post office she found a postcard from Honda notifying us of the suit. I have a Honda walk-behind mower I bought back in 1999 which is still going strong (maintenance is everything, as we all know!).

So apparently at least some of the manufacturers are going through their owner registration files?

That said, I'm not real sure I'm happy about this whole thing even though I stand to gain $35 out of the deal. Like Steve said above, some people will sue over anything...and we all pay for it in higher insurance costs passed on to the consumer.

Duff

EDIT: If you have a few minutes, go here and scroll down to page 8, then read through to about page 25. Talk about an eye-opener!

https://lawnmowerclass.com/LinkClick.aspx?f...bid=149&mid=669

[dkopp 1]

I started a discussion awhile back about something similar to this.

I don't know how to post a link to it but it is in this same section titled: Newer Lawn Tractors with 25+ HP

I guess all the hype is now backfiring on the manufactures.

[dkopp 1]

Just read the link that Duff had posted.... ...wow. Seems like everybody who makes engines or power equipment will have a teat in the ringer on that one.

[nylyon-(Admin) 7,294]

I received a post card today as well. I'm not sure if it's the AYP push mower that I bought or my 416.

[CasualObserver 3,408]

Probably both Karl.

The settlement agreement

[CasualObserver 3,408]

By the way... Every tractor forum is buzzing today talking about this suit because of all the postcards everyone is getting.... anyone else find it disturbingly ironic that when the big guys get in trouble, they have no problem knowing who you are and what you have, but when you're trying to get help they can't be bothered?

[markslawnmowerworld 4]

Well my two cents worth......about a year and a half ago...the engine manufactures started rating the engines by the ccs of the engine not the horse power......I know for a fact that these manufactures just stick a decal on an engine that was warehoused for over a year and last year the engine was 25 hp

well this year its now a 27 hp........this is the truth....no joke.

thats why when they test these engines now....they are going by the torqe curve vs the horse power.......so now all small engines are rated by ccs..... :omg:

[rickv1957 72]

Very interesting thread ,Rick

[gwgdog66 23]

Yea I got a card in the mail today also.

[Save Old Iron 1,566]

I wonder if the people who initiated this lawsuit removed the engines from their equipment and actually tested it.

It just takes ONE, now doesn't it? And apparently that happened.

If you read the lawsuit brief,

there is one section that describes the manufacturers intent to knowingly over-rate a 3.5hp by 88% and market it as a 6.75 hp engine.

BHP vs to the wheel Hp , etc,

Whatever you would like to call it -

At its best, it's extremely misleading.

Done intentionally, it's deception.

When everyone does it and hides behind conveniently created artificial standards, its called marketing your product competitively.

You paid more for the product than it was worth and marketing managers made more bonus money than you get paid in a year for this "creative thinking".

I would hesitate to call what is happening now being "sue happy" or "suing over any little thing".

Chickens are coming home to roost.

:omg:

[Save Old Iron 1,566]

What might the brake hp be in a 5.5hp motor in first gear at 108-1 ratio?? (alot more than 5.5hp I suspect).

If these folks are rating it - then the 5.5 HP would probably measure 3.5 HP !!

But seriously - horsepower is torque x rpm - so if you lower the drive output rpm's THRU A TRANSMISSION you raise the torque at the transmission output but lower the speed of the drive wheels -sooo HP at a given ENGINE rpm would stay the same.

Sorry folks - no free lunches in the world of horsepower !

[perry 82]

my mail man showed me one of the cards and thats how i herd about it. heck i knew i was'nt going to get a card, all my stuff i own is from the 1960's .

[Coadster32 793]

Thanks for straightening me out on that guys. Torque for power mislead me. (They still don't tell you at the dealership) BTW- I won't be getting any postcards.

[nylyon-(Admin) 7,294]

I can't imagine my Onan powered 416 having LESS than 16 HP, that thing is pure beast. Now, my push mower rated at 3.5 seems more like 1.2 :omg:

[mavfreak 11]

I just got my card yesterday. I have a craftsman push mower that is rated at 6.6 and I never believed it. My old wore out lawn boy has more s#!t than it does. If gas is high you spend more time starting the craftsman wear the lawn boy would just rip threw it

[Herbl 10]

I see Onan is the only manufacture that is not listed, doesn't surprise me..

[Kelly 1,029]

I bought a new Crapsman push mower 5 or so years ago, it's a 6.75hp and the biggest piece of crap I've ever owned, not just the engine but the whole thing, I paid good money for it too . havn't got a card yet I'll be looking for it, hope they include a comment section .

[Duff 206]

Kelly and others,

No need to wait for a card to file a claim. Just go to the web site Perry posted at the top of this thread then click on, "Making a Claim". They walk you through the process and tell you what info you need.

At first I was a little surprised that they don't ask for proof of purchase, then I realized that to get all the information they request from the machine means you have to have it in front of you, and even if you bought it used second or third hand, you may still have factored the advertised horsepower into your buying decision. Also, going back to 1994 there are probably very few among us who would have such records.

One thing I can't quite figure out: As part of the settlement they are offering an additional year of warranty on the engines. Is this tacked onto the original warranty, or a year from the date of the settlement? I mean, if (as I suspect is the case with most of us) you've had the engine more than a year or two, the factory warranty is long gone so what's the point? On the other hand, if they are offering a full year of warranty from the date of the settlement, I can see a whole bunch of people with engines they may not really like abusing the bejeezus out of them to get them to break so they can be rebuilt or replaced. Has anybody had time to read the entire case to see if this is spelled out somewhere?

Just my musings for this afternoon........

Duff :D

[Kelly 1,029]

Well I put a claim in I'll tell you what comes of it??