420-LSE Tractor

[truckin88 104]

see this:

http://www.mytractorforum.com/showthread.php?t=113410

[rickv1957 73]

Im thinking I need that 420!!! Rick

[bitten 134]

Better get it Rick. Im sure you could find a place for it.

[dcrage 629]

Go Rick Go!!!!

[DoctorHfuhruhurr 137]

The Toro dealership near me still has one! It's brand new. Never sold (probably due to the the high cost). The guy said they would sell it for the right price.

They would need to get $15K for it just to break even with inflation compared to the original retail price of $7950 in 1986. Even though the dealer paid wholesale they would have been better off selling it in 1986 from a strictly financial perspective. New Old Stock is cool; I just wouldn't want to lose that much money owning any for that long. I prefer my $200 functional rusty ones. B)

[Otherbean 0]

The Toro dealership near me still has one! It's brand new. Never sold (probably due to the the high cost). The guy said they would sell it for the right price.

They would need to get $15K for it just to break even with inflation compared to the original retail price of $7950 in 1986. Even though the dealer paid wholesale they would have been better off selling it in 1986 from a strictly financial perspective. New Old Stock is cool; I just wouldn't want to lose that much money owning any for that long. I prefer my $200 functional rusty ones.

I agree, the dealers have lost money by holding onto these. How did WheelHorse justify asking over $7000 for a basic garden tractor all the way back in 1986? Did this tractor have power steering or any other improvements besides the chrome? What did the standard model without chrome cost? I can't see it having been over $4K, so they were charging $3000 for chrome? I can see why they didn't sell many. Even back then something far better could have been had for the $7K.

[wh500special 2,249]

Other than the chrome, leather seat, leather covered steering wheel, your name on an engraved hood plaque, and a few little trim details there really weren't any functional "improvements" over a 418-A of the same vintage. I don't have price lists available here (i'm out of town), but the price delta with a 48" deck (std on the LSE, optional on the 418) was in your postulated neighborhood of $3000.

But value really wasn't the selling feature of this tractor. It was designed to be a collectible and only 200 were minted. Exclusivity was the draw. And some of the advertising even made reference to the fact that the model wasn't for everybody.

The seat itself reportedly cost WH over $700. And the chrome pieces certainly weren't cheap. I'm sure they made money on these at the $7999 list price, but it probably was an extremely expensive model to produce.

Is it "worth" it? Probably not. Had they sold for what they were truly worth everybody would have had one and we'd not be so excited when one popped up since they'd be as common as 855's or 310's.

But how many of us can really justify owning the stuff we do? This wasn't really intended to be a rational purchase...it was a prestige purchase like BMW 7-series or fully decked-out, diesel, dually, crew-cab, high-zoot, $55k, pickup is today.

*BS alert: The following is speculation*

I doubt WH forced these on any dealer. Most were probably sold before they left the factory. Some probably were gifted to celebrities or communities (the City of South Bend had one). Some dealers probably bought them as permanent displays. I'd bet that most of them were garaged and weren't used as tractors since it seems like we see one or two a year with minimal hours on the clock. Chances seem pretty good that they were designed to be a collectible and most, in fact, are probably still in remarkable original conditon.

*deliberate BS over*

For those who are lucky enough to have one I'm sure the value comes more from satisfaction and rarity than from any dollar value since very few WH's really could be considered investments. But even this model is one that the "normal" public seems to take notice of.

Steve

[DoctorHfuhruhurr 137]

Other than the chrome, leather seat, leather covered steering wheel, your name on an engraved hood plaque, and a few little trim details there really weren't any functional "improvements" over a 418-A of the same vintage. I don't have price lists available here (i'm out of town), but the price delta with a 48" deck (std on the LSE, optional on the 418) was in your postulated neighborhood of $3000.

But value really wasn't the selling feature of this tractor. It was designed to be a collectible and only 200 were minted. Exclusivity was the draw. And some of the advertising even made reference to the fact that the model wasn't for everybody.

The seat itself reportedly cost WH over $700. And the chrome pieces certainly weren't cheap. I'm sure they made money on these at the $7999 list price, but it probably was an extremely expensive model to produce.

Is it "worth" it? Probably not. Had they sold for what they were truly worth everybody would have had one and we'd not be so excited when one popped up since they'd be as common as 855's or 310's.

But how many of us can really justify owning the stuff we do? This wasn't really intended to be a rational purchase...it was a prestige purchase like BMW 7-series or fully decked-out, diesel, dually, crew-cab, high-zoot, $55k, pickup is today.

*BS alert: The following is speculation*

I doubt WH forced these on any dealer. Most were probably sold before they left the factory. Some probably were gifted to celebrities or communities (the City of South Bend had one). Some dealers probably bought them as permanent displays. I'd bet that most of them were garaged and weren't used as tractors since it seems like we see one or two a year with minimal hours on the clock. Chances seem pretty good that they were designed to be a collectible and most, in fact, are probably still in remarkable original conditon.

*deliberate BS over*

For those who are lucky enough to have one I'm sure the value comes more from satisfaction and rarity than from any dollar value since very few WH's really could be considered investments. But even this model is one that the "normal" public seems to take notice of.

Steve

Well said.

$6950 Today equates to $3,550.00 in 1986. So if anyone was to get it at $6950 today it would be like buying it at a 50% discount in 1986 dollars. If you look at it that way it's a bargain.

I used the Bureau of Labor Statistics Inflation calculator

http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl

[marvairplanes 34]

But how many of us can really justify owning the stuff we do?

*BS alert: The following is speculation*

I doubt WH forced these on any dealer. Most were probably sold before they left the factory. Some probably were gifted to celebrities or communities (the City of South Bend had one). Some dealers probably bought them as permanent displays. I'd bet that most of them were garaged and weren't used as tractors since it seems like we see one or two a year with minimal hours on the clock. Chances seem pretty good that they were designed to be a collectible and most, in fact, are probably still in remarkable original conditon.

*deliberate BS over*

For those who are lucky enough to have one I'm sure the value comes more from satisfaction and rarity than from any dollar value since very few WH's really could be considered investments. But even this model is one that the "normal" public seems to take notice of.

Steve

Steve,

Excellent !!! Your entire post is (with appropriate acknowledgement) now included in my files on the 420LSE and its history.

I have been searching for information on these tractors for the past five or more years. I confirmed the existence of 14 for sure...with serial numbers, owners names, addresses, etc. With several, I have the complete history for the past 40 years. I have personally seen seven of the tractors. I can't believe that 186 of them are still in hiding???

I posted a photo of my Serial # 51 in this thread (Scroll back to Feb 12). Out of "curiosity" more than anything else, I asked for "OFFERS"...never really did say that it was for sale (and still haven't). Maybe I should have commented that the swirley/streaky marks on the hood were not imperfections, but reflections from the sun on the day I took the photo.

Guess how many fella from RS responded with an OFFER ??? Not one !!! I thought someone out there would have made an offer, even if in fun.

As you can see on the rubber floor mats, the deck, the gauge wheels, the rims, etc., this tractors was used as a lawn mower. The original owner bought and used this tractor because "he could". He was the owner of 3 new Holiday Inn Hotels, a large trucking firm, and owned and farmed over 2000 acres of prime land here in NW Ohio. I went to his funeral just last week...with all his wealth and creature comforts, there was no trailer hitch attached to his casket...he didn't take anything with him.

But, I'm sure he had his moments of glory when he rode that shiney expensive tractor around on his country estate, and I'm doing the same because "I can".

Marv (NW Oh)

[Operator 7]

But, I'm sure he had his moments of glory when he rode that shiney expensive tractor around on his country estate, and I'm doing the same because "I can".

Marv (NW Oh)

Quote above is Marv's

Here is what I say - - Go for it Marv!

Randy

PS - Rickv needs to have one in his collection!

[wh500special 2,249]

Geez, thanks Marv! Compliments from guys like you are very, very appreciated.

In the interest of full disclosure, I think I probably should mention that #65 is in my garage. so I'd love to see the value of these rise exponentially.

Mine was used and has about 300 hours on it. But they look to be gentle hours and it came from one of the premier gentlemen here on RS: "jusjeepin" Pat. He bought it from a friend of his and later decided to send it down the road. I was in the right place at the right time.

In the same day, I got off a 418 and on the 420. Even though the bones of the machine were virtually identical, there really is something neat about these specials.

Huh, I never made the connection before but the LSE was probably the most "special" of all the special models WH offered and definately broke tradtion with being a stripper model. The 603, "500", A90, C120, etc. were all economy models. Not these suckers.

Steve

[Duff 206]

I have been searching for information on these tractors for the past five or more years. I confirmed the existence of 14 for sure...with serial numbers, owners names, addresses, etc. With several, I have the complete history for the past 40 years. I have personally seen seven of the tractors. I can't believe that 186 of them are still in hiding???

Marv, I think I recall our member Rideawaysenior scoring one of these in the not too distant past. Is his among the ones you've discovered?

Duff B)

[420lse 18]

I am rebuilding an 1986 312-A Tractor, got it from my brother. When he originally purchased his, the was a 420-LSE tractor there, I think he said it was an anniversary addition the price was over $6,000 for the tractor and it had tons of chrome parts on it. Does anyone have one, love to see pictures of it!

Judging by this pic, I would have to say that anyone who owns an LSE now owns 1 of 199 Nice rigg!! Good luck on your rebuild.

[rickv1957 73]

PS - Rickv needs to have one in his collection!

A 420 might just happen as it would fit anyones collection great!,Rick

[jusjeepn 59]

Steve is 100% correct in saying that there is something special about just sitting on one. Not like sitting on a lever steer or a senior, It's really very hard to describe.

Just think of the very first car that caught your eye and you just fell in love with it... Now think of that feeling of excitement you felt when you got to sit in it for the first time.... The LSE is like that EVERY time you sit on it.

I had my wife pull it into the garage the day we brought it home and even she said there was just something special about that machine. In all the pictures we took of that machine during the 6 months it was here, we both are just grinning from ear to ear.

I don't regret selling #65 to Steve because I know he appreciates it and will care for it almost better than he does his kids (and I know how you care for those chitlins). I do however regret buying it to begin with, knowing that I could never use it. And now, knowing the feelings I had when I first sat on that machine, I am ruined when I sit on other machines. Oh there is still the thrill of the chase, just not the conquering feeling we get when we break in that "new" horse for the first time anymore. You all know those feelings because these machines are more that just tractors to us.

In closing I'd have to say that this machine, although extravagant and a bit out of reach for most of us, is undoubtedly the best machine that W/H ever produced.

Thank you Cecil Pond

[stevebo-(Moderator) 8,398]

All-

I stopped by the dealership today and looked at this one up close and personal. It is the real deal. 0 hours and just sitting in the corner surrounded by a bunch of green tractors. Someone needs to save this one. If you buy it I am willing to haul it the show.

[Nick 13]

The local dealer had a 420 and in order to sell it he had pulled off the chrome wheels and I think some other parts also. A few years ago the tractor came back in as a trade in after being used as a regular working tractor. I believe a collector might have bought the tractor but I dont remember who it was. I also cant remember seeing what number it was.

[Ken B 3,165]

Someone needs too bust out the Visa Gold! How can ya beat a tow to the BIG show? I'd love to someday have a 420LSE, whats cooler than a factory built hot rod garden tractor? And a Wheel Horse no less! B)

[truckin88 104]

Steve what kind of money figures we talking???

[Operator 7]

All-

I stopped by the dealership today and looked at this one up close and personal. It is the real deal. 0 hours and just sitting in the corner surrounded by a bunch of green tractors. Someone needs to save this one. If you buy it I am willing to haul it the show.

Rick, You on your way?

Randy

[Brrly1 1,146]

Guys, I believe the thought has crossed his mind a time or two. See Ya, Bye Burly

I can see it now up on the shelf with all the other NOS Tractors

:party:

[fireman 1,022]

Steve told me they want $6500 for it . I think it's going to be sitting there for another 20 plus years!

[nylyon-(Admin) 7,487]

You know, $6,500 is really quite reasonable. In 1994, I paid $5,100 for my 416-H add all the goodies plus inflation and you got yourself a heck of a deal. If anyone is interested (like Stevebo) I can pick it up and store it (but I get to sit on it once or twice!)

[fireman 1,022]

I'm still saving my money for the Ride-Away Senior that Dave has. I would rather spend $5000 for that.

[marvairplanes 34]

Steve told me they want $6500 for it . I think it's going to be sitting there for another 20 plus years!

20 years???? No, I don't think so!!!!

In 1986 Wheel Horse made 200 of these tractors. Except for the one in New England, and one in Indiana, it appears as though 198 were sold.

Back in '86 $7995 for a lawn mower was BIG MONEY !

The average prices back then:

New House $89,430

Yearly income $22,400

Monthly rent $385

New car $9,255

Gal of gas $.89

Tandy 600 Computer $1895

Dow Jones ave... WOW !!! 1895

Interest Rate 7.5%

I doubt if the guys who bought those new tractors 24 years ago were "collectors". They saw a very special model, and they wanted it! Wheel Horse had not yet been sold to TORO, and I wonder how many , if any, wheel horse tractors were being collected, restored, and coveted. After all, why would you "collect" something that was still in production, and for the most part, readily available at local dealers in even most small towns around the country.

And remember, there was no Internet to speak of, there was no RED SQUARE with 2553 members who were making 128,400 posts, showing off their latest "hauls",

and driving many hundreds of miles to display their tractors in Pa . or other shows around the country.

"If you're going to talk the talk, you've got to walk the walk."

20 years???? ...to sell one "Very special tractor"...I doubt it!!!

Marv (NW Oh)