Slop in Steering

[rmaynard 15,421]

I have noticed that I have a lot of slop (play) in the steering of my B-100. The steering wheel moves about an inch or so before there is any movement of the front wheels. I have a C-161 which is a parts tractor, and it seems to have the same amount of slop. Is this normal? If not, what can be done? The problem seems to be in the gear circled in red below.

Any ideas?

Bob

[JimD 3,345]

i had this problem on my b60 at one time. i had to replace the steering wheel shaft. you may have some broken teeth on that, or the fan gear. unlike the older models, the gear on the steering wheel shaft is welded on. you can grind the weld and take it off, but be careful not to do to much to the shaft. it takes a thin wheel to do it, that's why i had to replace the shaft... B)

[Save Old Iron 1,566]

Bob,

check to make sure if the play exists at the pillow-block junction where the upper steering shaft meets the lower shaft or at the tie rod ends on the front axle.

Worn tie rods are easy enough to replace.

Slop at the sector gears can be adjusted out by placing shimming washers behind the cotter pinned collar on the lower shaft - the washer / shims will "draw" the sector gears on the bottom shaft closer into the top shaft gearing and remove most, if not all, of the slop.

You may also want o check for a cracked mounting on the pillow-block itself. I thought there was a post on that a few weeks back. A search for steering play should bring it up.

Find anything else lately while walking in the woods?

[sorekiwi 761]

Also check whether there is excessive play where the shafts go into the pillow block. The lower shaft (horizontal) rides in a thin wall brass bush that is available from Toro still. The vertical shaft rides in a plain bore that can wear if that zerk fitting has been ignored.

As the others stated you can shim the lower shaft to bring it tighter into mesh.

The other common wear points are the tie rods, and the support bearing for the horizontal steering shaft at its front end (under the motor).

[rmaynard 15,421]

Thanks for all the tips. I know that everything at the front end is fine. Tie rods are fairly new and the holes are not worn. All nuts are tight. The slop does appear to be where the gear at the bottom of the steering shaft meets the fan gear (I guess I have my terms correct). With wheels on the ground, and the lower shaft stationary (meaning that the fan gear is held motionless), the small gear seems to be the issue. No teeth are broken, although I can't tell if they are worn.

So I guess my questions is, is this a common problem? After replacing the bushing, if the problem is still there, is there any way of modifying the gear or the position as related to the closeness of contact to the fan gear?

Bob

[Helmer 0]

I had the same problem with my C101. It was so bad that the gear teeth would jump over each other during a hard turn. First I re-shimmed the lower steering shaft to the support block to almost zero play (less than .002). Then I realized that the uper steering shaft had movement up and down. I removed that play by moving the upper steering shaft collar and re-tighten. Worked like a charm and the steering is nice and tight now.

[JimD 3,345]

there is a collar on the upper end of the steering shaft that can be moved. it has an allen head set screw in it. it's up under the dash, and in front of the gas tank. if it slipped down, the steering wheel can lift up, separating the two gears. see if the steering wheel raises up when you try to lift while sitting on the tractor. if it does, you need to slide the collar back up into position and re tighten it.

[rmaynard 15,421]

Steve,

Thanks for that info. That is what I have concluded. The play between the fan gear and gear at the bottom of the shaft has become excessive, and shimming appears to be the answer (at least one answer).

Bob

[rmaynard 15,421]

there is a collar on the upper end of the steering shaft that can be moved. it has an allen head set screw in it. it's up under the dash, and in front of the gas tank. if it slipped down, the steering wheel can lift up, separating the two gears. see if the steering wheel raises up when you try to lift while sitting on the tractor. if it does, you need to slide the collar back up into position and re tighten it.

Jim,

No up/down play, but thanks for that. I will be aware of it when final reassembly takes place.

In the mean time, I am getting ready for up to 36" of new snow Friday into Saturday.

Bob

[Duff 206]

Bob, I had this same problem on the 312-8 I'm working on. Even after I replaced the tie rods, re-bushed the horizontal shaft that the fan gear rides on both at the front and through the pillow block, and replaced the parts that support the vertical shaft that goes up to the steering wheel I still had a ton of slop where you describe it. Here's how I solved it - unorthodox, perhaps, but it got the desired result:

-Purchase another bushing, same part number as the one that the fan gear shaft rides on where it passes through the pillow block. Your red circle covers the part number on the IPL you posted, but it might be #12?

-Take this bushing and carefully split it into two approximately equal halves lengthwise. I did this with a Dremel tool. Be gentle - the bushing is brittle. Smooth the edges with some emory cloth.

-Loosen the set screw and collar about half way up the vertical steering shaft and pull the shaft up far enough so it's clear of the pillow block.

-If you haven't already, clean the inside of the pillow block thoroughly and then apply a coating of grease inside the pillow block where the vertical shaft goes in.

-Position one half of the split bushing in the pillow block such that it will be beside the vertical shaft the small gear is on as it's pushed back down into the pillow block, but do this on the opposite side from the grease zerk so lubrication can still get into the area. Now start to work the vertical shaft down into the pillow block. As you do so the bushing will probably slip down inside the pillow block, so if it does, pull the shaft back out and place the second bushing half on top of the first bushing half then work it down along with the shaft. I also twisted the vertical shaft back and forth a little as I was working it down into the pillow block.

The result was a very tight fit. After I resecured the vertical shaft collar I had to work the steering wheel back and forth several times to "wear" the bushing into place. Now it has settled in and seems to be holding nicely. I'll know better come spring when I [hopefully] finish this tractor up and get in some seat time, but as long as I keep the pillow block greased I expect the repair will last for a while. I did something similar on another piece of equipment a using a piece of copper pipe as the split bushing and that repair is still going strong 15 years later.

I'm really sorry in retrospect I didn't take photos of this as I was doing it, but I was working on a wing and a prayer hoping to solve the problem and sort of lost sight of the process.

Others may have a better solution, but short of buying new gears, it worked for me.

Good luck!

Duff :party:

[rmaynard 15,421]

Duff,

I have printed your instructions and put a copy into my "restoration book". As soon as spring gets here and I can spend some time on the problem, I will try it, or something similar.

Thanks

Bob

[hotrodmerc 1]

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In the mean time, I am getting ready for up to 36" of new snow Friday into Saturday.

I am doing the same. This will really test a garden tractor.

[rickv1957 72]

Shimming at the fan gear snug useally helps a bunch as Chuck suggested,Rick