Hydro Tranny Question

[KB9LOR 4]

Does anyone know what other tranny(if any) will fit in a 69 electro 12 w/hydraulic lift? The one in it is a Sunstrand Model# 90-2046. Does it have to be the same tranny that had a hydraulic lift, can I have it work the hydraulic lift the same as the 90-2046? What I am saying I have 2 xtra Sundstrand Model# 31000077 that did not have Hydraulic lift, can I use those? they look the same, but never had hyd. lift? I know I confuse myself sometimes, lol!

[Horse Rancher 0]

I do know that sundstrand made a oil gear unit and a piston-piston unit

you should just be able to switch around the relief valves to get it to work

I do have a few of the older oil gear units for parts if needed one does

have the hydro lift :banghead:

[KB9LOR 4]

They did not switch those until 73 did they?, if that is the case, the 66 and 67 models I have should work on the 69, at least that is what I am hoping.

[Rideawaysenior 25]

I believe that there are relief valves you will have to take out from the old tranny and place them into the new one. The hydros that had a manual lift didn't have all the components installed from the factory that they needed to complete the lift.

[refracman 167]

To make it a hyd. lift you will need the cone and spring. It the same for both the hyrdo gear and piston to piston. Refer to your manual for location.

As to swaping a piston to piston or visa versa, yes in can be done. You will have to make sure the drive gear on the pump/motor assembly is the same. If so its a direct bolt on. If not you need to change the drive in the trans. There was a kit made for the GT14 to install the newer style pump. I have done this swap with a Gt14 before and had to change the trans gear.

[KB9LOR 4]

Will have to check on it refracman, It may be the plastic/nylon plate is cracked also, but I have no idea where that is, I have looked in the trans manula for that plate, but have not been able to identify it, lol. But I will keep trudging along. thanks for the help everyone, it is much appreciated.

[Sarge 3,463]

Take the access/cover plate off the frame and look inside. That aforementioned nylon plate is sitting vertically and ties the direction control lever to the pump's direction valve. On the back side is a slot for the pump's direction arm to ride in , it's shaped like a lazy Z . As the plate moves up and down it cycles the pump's arm between full forward/nuetral/full reverse . At the front there is a hole that the main direction control lever from the chassis rides with a ball socket. This ball socket can sometimes get worn, or even break . Most times one side or the other of the nylon plate becomes brittle and breaks out. Very simply built.

Early versions ('67>) did not have any friction adjustment on the direction control lever (DCL) . Instead of having a very large nut and friction cone on the DCL they just simply used two spring-loaded screws that increased and adjusted the friction load against the nylon plate. Later versions, like the Chargers have a large nut that forces two cones oriented on the shaft together to control the lever friction. Tighter the nut, the harder the lever is to move. On the left side of the hoodstand where the shaft exits is a tab with a small bolt . If that tab is broken loose the friction cone no longer works and will allow the DCL to move too freely. This is why some hydro's are so jumpy or want to run away without the parking brake engaged. I think it's also sometimes a direct result of broken parking brake pawls inside the trans- the thing tries to run off and operator just jerks up on the brake handle, breaking the pawl in the process.

Hope all that made sense...whew.

Sarge

[Sarge 3,463]

Also, back to your original question.

The hydro lift control valves/check valves/springs must be kept to allow operation of a hydro lift. There are two versions.

Early styles used a ball check valve/spring as well as a bullet shaped valve in the front top port. The rear port (non-T-handle tow valve models) holds the ball/spring as well as some shim washers to set final lift max pressure. Later versions only used the bullet shaped cone/spring (T-handle tow valve on top) .

Easy identification is what tow valve is on your hydro. The ones with a T-shaped handle on top are the later version . Early versions had a small 1/2" bolt head that had to be opened in order the push/tow the tractor located at the rear of the hydrogear inside the toolbox.

'73 and later hydrogears used a large slotted screw (anyone hate those?) located at the front of the hydrogear to open up the tow valve bypass circuit .

You cannot use the early version check valve/ball/cone/spring/shims on later hydrogears . It's easiest to swap pumps from the same style /era , just stick with the same pump system that matches your original tow valve.

Sarge

[rickv1957 72]

Sarge,well said on the hydros! Rick

[KB9LOR 4]

Thanks Sarge! that helps ALOT! Now if it would just warm up a bit I can get out there and get to work lol!

[Sarge 3,463]

No problem !

I need to go find links to the corresponding drawings I have saved on the 'puter, pictures sure help a lot .

I know one drawing is directly from either the pto kit or hydro lift kit ....

Sarge

[refracman 167]

Sarge

I respectfully have to disagree with you in reference to the hydraulic lift.

All hydraulic lifts used the spring/ cone configuration ( reference HY-6, GT14, Hydraulic transmission manuals, EMPART web site). Although the spring did change part numbers ( pt num. 6631 1966-1972, pt num.103464 1973-1980) the cone remaned the same through the both the Hydrogear and Piston to Piston (pt num. 6632).

Allthough the spring numbers changed it is interchangeable between both styles. I have not only done this myself but was told by a Wheel Horse Master machanic that it was possible to do so (If you want his ph number I will pm you it)

Concerning the shim kit I didn't need to adjust the lift pressure in the Hyrdogear trans. So I asked concerning useing them in it and my freind stated "That although I never had to use them in a Hydrogear that it should be possible to use them".

In conclusion no matter which Hydro transmission you obtain the implement lift relief valve cone and spring from it will work in any of them. And even if you find the spring not to your likeing it is still available as part number 103464 with shim kit part number 103588.

As a side note the hydralic lift rockshaft will also work in a various tractors from 1966 to 1977 part number 6615

link to EMPART http://wssemw.arinet.com/scripts/EmpartISAPI.dll?MF

edit link that works http://www.milacalawn.com/parts.asp

[Sarge 3,463]

I'll have to look again at the drawings, seems the '66 and '67's used a check ball instead of a cone valve, then again maybe not. I would agree that there is a potential to use those valves in all models since the port design seems to have never been altered, just moved.

Sarge

[WheelHorseSteve 56]

Wow! What a helpful post... I am putting a 90-2046 hydrogear transmission (from a Charger, I believe) onto my C160 and am concerned about the implement relief valve... I am not sure if the 90-2046 I have has this part installed. It sounds like I might be able to use the one in my 90-1140 (original C160 tranny) despite the different location.

So a few questions here --

1) The hoses are different. I am not even sure which ports on top of the pump to attach them to... can anyone advise here? I've studied the manual and it isn't totally clear. A picture would be very helpful!

2) Since the hoses are different, they won't fit my existing hydraulic lift valve. The hoses from the 90-1140 are wider. I believe there are adapters I can use -- can anyone advise on the adapter sizes... even suggest a product here?

Thanks in advance!

-Steve