C-140 8 Speed

[Sutty 96]

Thanks for that TT

I'll give that a try tomorrow, but it will be evening before I can give it a go as I will be working during the day. If I don't crack it tomorrow it will be next weekend before I can try again as I will be working away for the rest of the week.

I really appreciate the way in which you are presenting this to me in small, achievable steps, which I can cope with, and which may avoid the need for a full strip down of the carburettor. Just what I need with my lack of overall engine experience.

Thanks again, and I will keep you posted.

Best Regards

Sutty

[Sutty 96]

It runs! Yea ha. Now all I need to do is get it to run well. I won't be able to do anything further until the weekend, but it ran!

I followed exactly what you said TT, and it still wouldn't run. I then thought about what you had said about once it was running it would probably draw fuel on its own, so I tried something that perhaps I shouldn't have. Perhaps you can comment on whether it was wise or not, but it did do the trick. What I did was remove the spark plug and poured in about a teaspoon full of petrol, maybe a tad more. I then cranked it over a few times until I could see that it was blowing a fine mist out of the top of the engine through the spark plug hole. I then put in a a couple of drops more, literally, put the spark plug back, and it started first time.

Now I know this was most likely just the straw that broke the camels back, as it definately needed all the other things doing, and it may well not be recommended, but if it is allowed, it might be a useful tip for someone else to try if they are struggling. Maybe it is already well known, or obvious, but in case it isn't I thought I would mention it.

As for how it runs, well it is average, and I have no clue how to tune it either, but I imagine you could have guessed that. Perhaps I could describe what it does and someone could chime in with some fine tuning instructions. Perhaps I could even record it on YouTube so you can hear it. Would that be of any help?

I would describe it as running pretty well, but it misses periodically, and it does this whether the revs are high or low. Hopefully this is pretty simple for you guys too.

Thanks again guys.

Regards

Sutty

[TT-(Moderator) 1,131]

I've fed them through the spark plug hole on many occasions, Sutty.

It's actually better for the engine than using starting fluid, but we won't get into that discussion because of the "great starting fluid debate" of a year or two ago.

I'm betting the periodical miss you're hearing sounds a bit like "thwoot" out of the exhaust, right?

I have several that do it (I refer to it as "dropping out") and hold the ignition system fully accountable - coupled with the fact that a few of mine only get used 3 or 4 days out of the year.

If it's been a while since the points and condenser have been replaced, it might be time. A new spark plug and plug wire probably wouldn't hurt either.

Another little trick I was taught a while back is to add some lacquer thinner (for paint) in with the gasoline. (about one cup per quart) As the engine runs and the fuel "mixture" flows through the carburetor, it will actually help clean the internal passages. (it might even help decarbonize the combustion chamber )

Keep us posted of your progress - when you can. :thumbs:

[Retired Wrencher 5,440]

When I fly to England (not often enough) I land in Manchester. Maybe we've crossed paths .

Here in the states there is no C-140 8speed. We have a C-141 8speed made in 1978-79 and the C-145 made in the early 80's.

I tried using the TORO Master Parts Viewer to get a part# for the starter but I cant seem to get a # .

Mike.........

HI sparky I have a C141 and it is an Hydro with power lift. Just thought u would like to know Gary B......................

[Sutty 96]

Hi Guys

Just thought I would post a quick update with regard to my starting and running issues. As you may remember I replaced the starter with a used one. Unfortunately this did not have sufficient torque, and I have now replaced it with a brand new one, and in terms of turning over, everything is now fine. I had already replaced the fuel line, probably didn't help but it was old, and was cheap, so I did it anyway. I cleaned the points and the carb, eventually put some petrol directly into the cyclinder head, and got it to start, and run, but it wasn't perfect. (Yes TT it was making periodic thwooting noises from the exhaust.)

Having followed all the advice received to that point, I have now further followed the most recent advice from TT and replaced the points, plug, lead and condenser with new. I added a samll amount of fuel injection engine cleaner to the fuel, and tweaked the carburettor adjusments until it idled properly and ran nicely at high speed.

I've just been using it for the last couple of hours and it has run beautifully for the entire time. Back to its best and hopefully good for another 30 years or so.

Thanks to all who contributed and gave me advice, and particularly to TT who seemed to have the symptons and solutions nailed.

Collectively you have resurrected my C-140, and managed to keep yet another old Wheel Horse running sweetly. So well done and thank you again.

Cheers

Sutty

[C-Series14 15]

Glad to hear! As my signature shows, I love the C-Series and will tell you, it will last you for many years to come! B)

[fireman 1,021]

First off welcome Sutty. Congrads on the C-140!

I just read this thread for the first time. This is a great representation of what RED SQUARE is all about: Members helping other members in a friendly, rational and informational way without all the drama. Well done guys B)

[Sutty 96]

C-Series14, pictures will be coming, I think I mentioned this earlier in the thread. I am just waiting for some half decent weather, and for someone with some camera skills to help me out. Sorry if it turns out to be a while, but I won't forget.

fireman, as for the spirit of the forum, I couldn't agree more, you guys rock. All too often you see where someone posts elsewhere, and receives a reply like, "well duh, you dumbass, of course you shouldn't have done that", or similar.

You guys have all been very friendly and understanding that we can't all be engine experts but just want to keep using the tool we have used and enjoyed for so many years. Thanks again to all.

Cheers

Sutty

[rickv1957 72]

Sutty,glad you got her up and going! Rick

[TT-(Moderator) 1,131]

Collectively you have resurrected my C-140, and managed to keep yet another old Wheel Horse running sweetly. So well done and thank you again.

That's the best news I've heard in a while, Sutty - and I am glad I was able to participate in the healing of a mythical C-140. (that still seems strange to type )

Give us a shout if you need anything else. B)

[bitten 134]

Sutty

If you haven't got a owners manual you might want to try to find one. It would be very helpful with the maintenance of the tractor. Show you things like fittings that need grease periodically and how to adjust the PTO for optimum performance. With what you have done already to your C140 I'm sure you can handle the maintenance tasks yourself and would not need outside help.

Glad you got it going.

[Rod(NASNUT) 1]

All too often you see where someone posts elsewhere, and receives a reply like, "well duh, you dumbass, of course you shouldn't have done that

We have all been down that road before. It is nice to know that if you have a ? you can ask and know you will get a reply B)

[piecrazy4 0]

B) glad you got it running !

[Daddy Don 905]

B)

[Sutty 96]

Just thought I'd post a little follow up to this thread. As you may or may not recall, with your help, I was able to get my 14Hp Kohler K321 back to working order on my C-140 8 Speed Wheel Horse. This week, 4 years later, and after having stood idle for the winter, it would not start again. Double thanks now go to the contributors to this thread, because I remembered it, and re-read it, and was reminded of many of the tips your were all able to provide me. Might be obvious to you, but as I re-read to make sure you check for a spark and then check your points, before doing anything more complex, was just what I needed. I know little of engines, but am okay with mechanical things in general, so when I saw no spark, I simply removed the points cover, took the points off the engine, and gave the contacts a very gentle clean. I did the same for the spark plug electrodes, and all was well. Clamped the plug to the engine, turned it over, and saw a good healthy spark. Re-assembled everything, and gave it some choke, and she fired up after about two or three turns. This afternoon, using the plough attachment I spread a few tons of gravel around the drive, saving me from over straining my back. Thanks again.

 

I never did get the better photos you asked for of the C-140. There are some in the thread but some guys asked if I could do better. Would it still be of interest to anyone, because if so, I will make sure I get some extra shots of it?

 

Best regards

 

Sutty

[rmaynard 15,417]

Great to hear from you again. Glad you remembered that we were still here, and I'm glad you are getting some seat time. It's easier to post pictures now, so let's see what you've got there.

[TT-(Moderator) 1,131]

Welcome back Sutty!  

 

Additional pictures of the C-140 would be more than appreciated. Four years later and yours is still the only one I have "seen"!

[AMC RULES 37,125]

    ...and I've never seen one, so... 

[Sutty 96]

Hi guys

 

Thank you for the welcome back, and okay if the interest is there I'll do some better pics. I'm sorry it will look so 'used', but it is 35 odd yrs old, lost count now, and it doesn't really get much TLC. I know some of you won't approve of my little mods, but I guess if it ever falls into the hands of an enthusiast they could easily be reversed. I'm still astounded by the amazing quality, in that it is going strong after all that time, but I guess you guys are fully familiar with tales of similar.

 

Anyway, back next weekend with some pics.

 

Cheers

 

Sutty

[Sutty 96]

Hello again guys. Just thought I'd post up what has been a minor repair success for me today. Got all the lawns mowed with the Cub Cadet, and then because I was running out of room for grass cuttings, the majority of which were rotted down from last year, I decided to get my Wheel Horse out and bulldoze all the clippings back and out of sight, well, out of the way at least. It did a great job, but after having completed only half of the exercise I lost all forward drive. I wondered what it could be, worrying that it could be serious, clutch, gearbox, worse, lol, but then I noticed that the clutch pedal was remaining depressed. After inspection I discovered that the clutch pedal return spring front hook had snapped off. After a little inspection of the spring I decided that there were enough coils for me to 'borrow' one of them to make a new hook. I put it in the vice, bent the last coil out to form a new hook end, and re-fitted it, and everything was as before. Ten minute repair, when I thought I was potentially going to be faced with something far more complex. Only a little thing, and nothing to you guys, but I still pleased myself at being able to fix it.

 

Here are some pictures as promised. Best I could do as I'm no photgrapher, and the only equipment I have is my phone. A few more to follow in a minute if it will let me upload more in another post.

 

Oh, and by the way, thanks to having done the photos I spotted that my front left tyre wasn't seated properly on the rim, so I'm thinking that I'll let it down, squirt a little silicone lube in there and pump it up again, and hopefully it will press out evenly then.

Edited April 18, 2014 by Sutty

[Sutty 96]

Here are the remainder of the shots, including, if it's allowed in here, , a quick snap of my Cub Cadet, which is about 7 years old I think.

 

Cheers

 

Sutty

[rmaynard 15,417]

Thanks for the great pictures. I wish they would have made that one over here, but I guess I can just get a C-120 and repower it with a K321. Then Terry could make some decals and we'd have a head turner at the show in June.

[posifour11 723]

Thanks for the great pictures. I wish they would have made that one over here, but I guess I can just get a C-120 and repower it with a K321. Then Terry could make some decals and we'd have a head turner at the show in June.

Bet that would make the rivet counters recheck their lists.

[AMC RULES 37,125]

Very cool  tractor there.

        

[Sutty 96]

Hi Guys

 

Me again. I tend not to use my C-140 very often and when I do its Kohler K321 often doesn't start. Thanks to a few of the things learned in here, and elsewhere, I can usually overcome it, and did again, but this time, after I got it started, I had a very strange failure to run when hot. It started out that it would run long enough to allow me to mow all my lawns, but soon ended up that I could only drive for half a lap, before I had to let it cool down just to start it again to get it back to the shed. I tried a whole bunch of things to fix it. In no particular order, setting the valve gaps, changing the condenser, new points (they were slightly broken anyway) and setting them, adjusting the carburettor, completely stripping the carb and cleaning it thoroughly, new HT lead, but nothing would work. It would always start easily, after all these things, idle nicely, and rev up, but would very soon stop after running it fast and getting it hot. Eventually I decided to buy a new carburettor, they aren't badly priced, cheap I'd say, and it has done the trick for fast running, with power now, and it just keeps on going. Indeed, I thought I had the whole thing sorted until I tried to set the idle properly and whilst I did I noticed another issue entirely.

 

The issue that remains is that I cannot set idle running properly, and fuel floods out of the front of the air intake when trying to adjust it. Well, I probably could adjust it, but it's not much good if fuel drips out. Basically it will run nice and slowly, but unless I rev it up it continues to come out. As soon as I transition to high speed running, the leak dries up. Also, I can't seem to stop the engine by turning the idle screw right in. Surely this should stop the engine completely, or is this part quite normal, and I can focus on the float, and its related components. I can nearly dry up the leak by turning the idle screw down but I don't know if or how this is related because I don't know how the carb works, where the fuel runs and in which order, etc.

 

Again it's a new carb, but I didn't remove the bowl to check the float assembly and components before fitting it to the engine.

 

What would you focus on if you were me?

Edited June 26, 2016 by Sutty