Limited Slip Dif ????

[chris11 184]

T will a diff in a hydo fit say a 8 speed?

[hodge 6]

Hi: Do any of you guys know ayything about Limited Slip Dif's

I have a C-121 which we have used for the last 3 years & it has always had a noisey transmission, (8 speed)

I tried to pull some heavy gang mowers out of a hole & as I expected the wheels started to spin, I looked down to see which wheel wasn't gripping & what I didn't expect to find was that both wheels were spinning, to me that would say it has a limited slip dif.

As I have a later tractor to which I have fitted a snow plow I thought it would be a good idea to fit a transmission with a limited slip dif, so I decided to strip the unit to find out why it is noisey.

I have removed the dif & it has 8 pinions, does this make it a limited slip?

I have also removed a dif from a Raider 12 transmission which I am told should have a limited slip dif & that one has 6 pinions.

I am confused, can anyone help?

With an open differential, if both tires have the same amount of traction, then they can both spin. The differential allows for power to be transferred while allowing different wheel speeds. But, one will spin while the other doesn't when traction isn't equal.

[TT-(Moderator) 1,145]

T will a diff in a hydo fit say a 8 speed?

As long as it is the same type from the same era.

Some units will also interchange/upgrade with other types - like the spider gear style can often be replaced with a 10 pinion and possibly some older 4 pinions.

The reduction gears, cases, and differential assembly are all Wheel Horse parts regardless of the hydro unit manufacturer. (Sundstrand or Eaton)

[earlleecliffton 38]

with that in mind,i wunnder if you can make a unidrive limited slip with a ring. i could make thous rings if had correct dimintions.

[TT-(Moderator) 1,145]

with that in mind,i wunnder if you can make a unidrive limited slip with a ring. i could make thous rings if had correct dimintions.

If you're talking about the newer 4 or 8 pinion differential, I suppose you could make a spring ring for them.

You'd have to be the one to get the dimensions since they aren't the same size as the old 10 pinion differentials.

[rickv1957 72]

I have a NOS ring if somebody wants dimensions let me know,Rick

[earlleecliffton 38]

I would please, and maybeclose up pic thanx in advance.

[HorseBreaker 0]

Hi again. I have now fitted a limited slip 10 pinion diff to my tractor only to find it doesn't work.

I have now removed it again & having found that the spring ring is NLA I have attempted a repair.

I cut a short length of scaffold tube which is almost 2" in diameter, I tapered one end of the tube & forced it inside the spring ring with a vice, I then heated the ring with a gas blow torch for 5 minutes or so, I then quenched it in oil.

When I removed the ring from the tube I found it had expanded as required, my only thought is that it may now be too large putting too much pressure on the pinions, I have decided the only way of knowing this is to fit it & try it, I will fit it tomorrow & let you know the result, just hope the tractor doesn't only go in a straight line.

It has been mentioned that perhaps putting a spring ring in an 8 pinion diff could make it a limited slip, does anyone know if this will actually work.

Can anyone explain how the ring makes the diff limited slip.

[TT-(Moderator) 1,145]

First of all, scaffolding tubing is not spring steel. In order for the limited slip to function, there must be spring pressure applied to the pinion gears to hold them so they don't turn within the carrier. (when not turning the tractor)

The spring ring effectively locks into the pinion teeth and forces them against the carrier and only allows them to slip when enough force is applied. (when one axle needs to slow down below the speed at which the carrier is rotating)

Putting a spring ring in a 4 or 8 pinion differential might work and it might not. The pinions have nothing to push out against like the old 10 pinion carrier design. (that's why the pinions float inside the carrier instead of rotating on pins or shafts)

If you absolutely need to have both wheels driving equally, they can be locked solid by flipping the pinions in pairs, but you'll have a very hard time steering. Since you have to disassemble everything to do this, it's a real pain to change back if you don't like it -- and I don't think you will. :thumbs:

[HorseBreaker 0]

Sorry but I don't think you read my description properly, the piece of scaffold tube was used to expand the spring ring & will not be fitted into the transmission so it doesn't need to be spring steel, anyway as I said I will report back on its success or otherwise.

[TT-(Moderator) 1,145]

Yep.... my mistake.

Let us know how it works.

[HorseBreaker 0]

Refitted the transmission this morning & put the plow against an immovable object, selected low gear & released the clutch.

Even with my repair on the limited slip only one wheel turned, I think I will have to agree that it not a very well designed unit.

However when I jacked up the rear end & turned one wheel I found the other wheel turned the same way, so that must be an improvement.

Are there any other more efficient LSD unit in other Wheel Horses?

[TT-(Moderator) 1,145]

Are there any other more efficient LSD unit in other Wheel Horses?

Nope..... that was the only one.

Too bad it didn't work out for you - especially after all of that trouble & work. :thumbs:

[earlleecliffton 38]

mine will bite posi up against wall on concrete but not in snow????whats up with that???

[WheelHorseSteve 56]

I found this thread very interesting and would vote to have this one pinned. I just installed a complete transaxle from {I believe} a Charger 10 onto my C-160 and have noted different behavior versus the original transmission. Here is what I found on jackstands:

Original C-160 Sundstrand Auto transmission (Sundstrand pump model 90-1140)

Tow-valve closed - wheels spun opposite ways freely (smooth)

Tow-value open - {never tested... it's totally stuck closed}

Replacement Sundstrand Auto transmission (Sundstrand pump model 90-2046)

Tow-valve closed - wheels spun the same way (with a clicking/friction noticeable)

Tow-valve open - wheels spun opposite ways (with a clicking/friction noticeable)

Does this make any sense? Both have the 1-1/8" axles... I do believe that on a basis of these observations alone that I have different unidrives...

Thoughts?

[diamondred 63]

When turning the rear wheels while both are off the ground, be sure it's in neutral, or it will differentiate and the wheels will spin opposite of each other. One might even hear a "clicking noise", that's the radial spring bouncing on the pinions. The ten pinions in the hydros, you would have to get the hydro motor to spin. I don't think releasing the tow valve would help, simply because there is still a lot of resistance. Here is one I made from spring steel order from Grainger.... Pretty ingenious really, but not as strong as the 8 pinions.  

Edited March 29, 2017 by diamondred

[pfrederi 17,895]

1 minute ago, diamondred said:

When turning the rear wheels while both are off the ground, be sure it's in neutral, or it will differentiate and the wheels will spin opposite of each other. One might even hear a "clicking noise", that's the radial spring bouncing on the pinions. The ten pinions in the hydros, you would have to get the hydro motor to spin. I don't think releasing the tow valve would help, simply because there is still a lot of resistance. Here is one I made from spring steel order from Grainger....

 

 

How did you get the pring steel bent so nicely??  You should make a few I would buy a couple right now..  I really like the LTD slips 10 pinions.

[diamondred 63]

I had to first anneal the stock to make it workable... cut, grind, measure, heat, beat,cut, grind, measure, heat, beat , then heat treat. Red hot dunk in water then brought up to about 450-500 degrees and air cooled to temper.

 

Edited March 30, 2017 by diamondred

[pfrederi 17,895]

3 minutes ago, diamondred said:

I had to first anneal the stock to make it workable... cut, grind, measure, heat, beat,cut, grind, measure, heat, beat , then heat treat. Red hot dunk in water then brought up to about 450-500 degrees and air cooled.

 

Thank you

Beyond my metal working capabilities...As Dirty Harry said a man has got to know his limitations