HorseBreaker 0 #1 Posted January 11, 2010 Hi: Do any of you guys know ayything about Limited Slip Dif's I have a C-121 which we have used for the last 3 years & it has always had a noisey transmission, (8 speed) I tried to pull some heavy gang mowers out of a hole & as I expected the wheels started to spin, I looked down to see which wheel wasn't gripping & what I didn't expect to find was that both wheels were spinning, to me that would say it has a limited slip dif. As I have a later tractor to which I have fitted a snow plow I thought it would be a good idea to fit a transmission with a limited slip dif, so I decided to strip the unit to find out why it is noisey. I have removed the dif & it has 8 pinions, does this make it a limited slip? I have also removed a dif from a Raider 12 transmission which I am told should have a limited slip dif & that one has 6 pinions. I am confused, can anyone help? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TT-(Moderator) 1,145 #2 Posted January 11, 2010 The 8 pinion differential is considered "open" - unless someone flipped some pinions around and make it fully locked. Unless a few are missing, the original Raider differential should have 10 pinions total - 5 on each half of the carrier. (5060 or 5073 transaxles) It should also have the spring "ring" inserted inside all 10 pinions, which makes it "limited slip". (marketed under the name "Transpower") Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HorseBreaker 0 #3 Posted January 12, 2010 Great, thanks for the info, got one of those I will give it a try. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ol550 830 #4 Posted January 12, 2010 This is a Pic of the limited slip. The friction ring is in the center. Most of the parts are there even the small ones. :thumbs: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HorseBreaker 0 #5 Posted January 12, 2010 Great help, thanks for the photo, I'm still confused about the five pinions that are in place without being in spindles but I supose it must work! Thanks again. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TT-(Moderator) 1,145 #6 Posted January 12, 2010 Hey Charlie...... make sure you look at this picture. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The pinions are actually "suspended" in the carrier by the gear oil. It works on the same principle as the connecting rod//crankshaft journal in an engine. If the oil disappears, it'll tear stuff up quick. :banghead: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bitten 134 #7 Posted January 13, 2010 OK so just because it has 8 pinions doesnt mean that it is a "posi" rear end? I wanted both wheel to give traction so I got a 103907 to put on my 310-8, am I thinking wrong and just wasted my money(other then having stronger axles)? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wheel horse 1045 2 #8 Posted January 13, 2010 wheelhorse did'nt make a posi rear end Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TT-(Moderator) 1,145 #9 Posted January 13, 2010 wheelhorse did'nt make a posi rear end Actually - "posi" is just a slang term for the General Motors "Positive Traction" limited slip differential. (Chrysler called theirs "sure-grip", FoMoCo products were Trac-Lok, etc.) Limited slip means that springs, clutch packs, and/or tapered side gears are used to "lock " both axle gears to the ring gear carrier while the vehicle is traveling in a straight line, yet it's still able to slip when turning to allow the inside wheel to slow down. The Wheel Horse "Transpower" 10 pinion differential is indeed a "limited slip" unit. If you raise the rear of the tractor and turn one rear wheel, the other wheel will turn in the same direction. All of the other rear ends are "open" and the wheels will turn opposite directions. Here's a picture of the assembled 10 pinion limited slip unit: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
clintonnut 126 #10 Posted January 13, 2010 Well put more oil in it! I'll see what my dad thinks of this. Charlie Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rideawaysenior 25 #11 Posted January 13, 2010 Terry, This may be a silly question, but how exactly does this version of the limited slip work? Does the friction ring expand as it warms up binding the pinion gears? I've never seen the inside of a limited slip so I am at a loss as to how this one works. Jack Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TT-(Moderator) 1,145 #12 Posted January 13, 2010 When the spring is "relaxed", it is bigger than the space inside the pinions and must be squeezed or compressed to install. (like an internal snap ring) Notice how wide the gap is in this picture: Once installed, it exerts equal pressure on the teeth of the pinions and holds them from rotating within the carrier. (at least they did when they were new 38 or more years ago ) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rickv1957 72 #13 Posted January 13, 2010 One question,what years or models was this rear installed? seems maybe 72 or so,thanks Rick Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rideawaysenior 25 #14 Posted January 13, 2010 Rick, They were on the Bronco's some Raiders as well as some other machines. I'd like to know too. I've got a 69 Charger 10 Auto that I'm curious to know if that tranny is in it. Jack Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TT-(Moderator) 1,145 #15 Posted January 13, 2010 The 10 pinions were in the 5060, 5071, and 5073 6 speeds for sure. (1967 to 1972) The Chargers (same years) as well as the Electros could have the 10 pinion, but some had the automotive style bevel gear (open) differential. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rideawaysenior 25 #16 Posted January 13, 2010 I suppose I'll have to lift the rear with one hand and spin the wheels with the other to find out. If they go the same way, I've got me a limited slip. The design is also interesting. A snap ring against pinion gears. Pretty simple way of doing it but it would seem to me that this would be a significant wear item. However saying that, they are still out there and working. How well the expansion ring is holding up after so many years may be another story. Sounds like a good item for some of our machineist friends to fabricate. I wonder how well one of these trannys would perform when new? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rickv1957 72 #17 Posted January 13, 2010 I will let you know that someday when I cant resist starting one of my NOS models Rick Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rideawaysenior 25 #18 Posted January 13, 2010 Yeah, yeah, yeah NOS. Although honestly, I'm just a little jealous of that collection you have there Rick. Reminds me from when I was a kid helping out my grandfather at his shop in Enfield. Playing on all the new Wheel Horse tractors he had in his show room. :thumbs: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rickv1957 72 #19 Posted January 13, 2010 Jack,you are more than welcome to stop by someday!!!Rick Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rideawaysenior 25 #20 Posted January 13, 2010 Rick, If I am ever out your way, you can bet I'll take you up on that invite. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sarge 3,463 #21 Posted January 13, 2010 I know for a fact the '68 Charger 12 I restored for the brother in law has the 10 pinion diff, and it still works excellent. He did finally get it stuck last week but with his wife's help (used her for ballast, no less) it walked right out by itself. Just a set of ags and weights, it's good to go... Sarge Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TT-(Moderator) 1,145 #22 Posted January 13, 2010 As far as hydros.......... Looks like the 5062 has the 10 pinion and the 5054 has the bevel gear. (that should apply to the 1968 to 1972 models) 5052 would be 1965 875 & 1075 (4 pinion "open" diff) 5054 would be in the 1966/67 1076/1276/1077/1277 (bevel gear diff) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HorseBreaker 0 #23 Posted January 14, 2010 Hi: Thanks to all of you for the info on the Limited Slip Diffs, I have used one out of a Raider 12 exactly the same as in your photos & fitted it to another 8 speed for use in tractor with a snow plow. Although the diff is assembled correctly the limited slip seems reluctent to have any effect. Sometimes when I get stuck & look at the wheels & both are spinning but more often its just one spinning, has anyone any ideas what the problem is? The only thing I can think is that the sprung ring in the centre of the diff is worn or lost its strength & needs replacing. Any ideas? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rideawaysenior 25 #24 Posted January 14, 2010 I would guess the ring is worn, that is the main component to the limited slip setup. No clue as to where to send you for a new one either. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TT-(Moderator) 1,145 #25 Posted January 15, 2010 Honestly, it's not a real good design and unless you find a very low hour unit, it probably won't work very well now. A new spring and 10 new pinions would be a start, but those pieces are NLA. You might luck out and find NOS pieces though. :thumbs: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
