Original OEM vs. Krylon vs. Valspar

[rmaynard 15,715]

As I begin the restoration of my B-100, I thought that I should decide on paint as my first priority. So with that in mind, and after reading many posts on paint color, I got myself a rattle can of Valspar Restoration Series IH Red, and a can of Krylon Cherry Red. Using 3 shift pattern plates as my experimental pieces, I began my test. Having one new old stock plate from a '76 B-100 with original, unfaded, unweathered paint, I used that as my control subject. I painted the others accordingly.

Here is the results:

Amazing what the camera sees that the eye doesn't. To the naked eye, the repaints look very close to each other, with the Krylon being a little deeper than the Valspar. And they look close to the OEM peice. But the camera sees differently. Obviously neither color, IH Red or Cherry Red are even close.

The quest continues...

[dunk50 6]

Ya know if you have the original un-faded piece any automotive paint shop could match it perfectly. That is if you have a compressor and spray gun. It would be nice to come up with a better match out of a rattle can though. most of us have nothing to compare with. Maybe we could send you a few bucks towards cans and you could try a few more MAYBE!! :notworthy:

[Don1977 604]

I thing either color looks better than the original.

[rickv1957 72]

Even with custom mixed paint there could be a color variance based on primer color,back ground light,or even the camera,Rick

[buckrancher 2,694]

:notworthy:

[rmaynard 15,715]

Very true Rick. The only unknown is the primer on the OEM piece. Both of the others shared the same primer, same lighting.

For rattle cans, I like the Krylon paint for the simple reason that it is the fastest drying paint on the market today. However, you can't get it in qts. or gals. to be able to spray with a gun. I can never get large surfaces such as fender and hoods to look right using anything other than a proper spray set-up.

The Restoration Series from Valspar takes ridiculously long to dry. The primer must be re-coated in 30 minute, otherwise you have to wait 48 hours. However it can be sanded in 2 to 4 hours. Then 48 hours before topcoating.

The topcoat says to re-coat within 3 hours, otherwise wait 48 hours.

I know that most of us are weekend warriors when it comes to these restorations and waiting 48 hours between coats take the whole weekend.

I think that I am inclined to pick the color that appeals to ME and have some DuPont Centari acrylic enamel matched and mixed. This stuff is tack free in 2 hours, re-coat in 4 hours and clearcoat the next day. For part-time painters such as me, it is a very forgiving paint. Also, properly thinned, small amounts can be put in a portable Butane sprayer for doing small jobs without setting up the sprayer, or for doing touch-up on the road.

[rmaynard 15,715]

Brian,

Point well taken.

Bob

[can whlvr 993]

once the whole machine is done it will look awsome

[Coadster32 793]

I agree to pic the color that you like best.

To add a little bit to this, on my 551 restore, I rattle canned the tins and tranny with oem, and brushed the frame with oem. All using the same primer. The rattle cans are slightly deeper in color than the gallon of paint I bought. Both are expensive, and I wouldn't spend the coin again on OEM. (of course, now I have almost a full gallon, and will prob. use it.) You can see it by eye. The rattle cans also have a nice luster to them, whereas the brushed gallon can doesn't.

[bmuone 15]

In between those two, the OEM looks sort of.....pink?. I know that cant be. Must be my computer. Yeah...that's it, it's my computer. I'm throwing it out and gettin one that shows WH red!

[buckrancher 2,694]

Very true Rick. The only unknown is the primer on the OEM piece. Both of the others shared the same primer, same lighting.

WH did not use primer

[Save Old Iron 1,566]

Interesting quote from my fresh copy of "Straight From the Horses Mouth"

a quote directly off page 18 - 2nd edition

"Originally, the Ponds would ask the manufacturer (O'Brien Paint Company) to mix their paint as close a match to International Red as possible"

So once again, your choices ...

1) Be true to the intention of the creator ( the original intention appears to have been to be close to International Red. So if "make it like" International Red changes, then so will Wheel Horse Red)

2) Be true to the actual results of the manufacturing floor (in which case all the "which color primer should I use" questions would all disappear) and if the mixed batch of paint turns out a little less perfect than expected - Do you really think the $10,000 batch of paint will be tossed away because its a little off, but still "in tolerance" ? Anyone who has worked in manufacturing for even the shortest time period knows the immediate answer to that one !

3) Be true to yourself by enjoying the hobby (Keep asking the questions because each new comparison photo and comment seen here provides food for thought and makes others think about new aspects of this great hobby we enjoy). This is the path I'm going to walk down.

4) or lastly,

wear out the icon,

which I don't think anyone REALLY believes will prevent another "which color to use" post from popping up before Christmas vacation !!

Santa, I will be submitting my Christmas list very shortly.

What shade of red will Rudolph's nose be this year ?

p.s. I also realize I'm at your mercy this year for the whole naughty / nice thing,

Chuck

[rmaynard 15,715]

Thanks for the post Chuck. I have a web site where I show the total restoration of a Sellers Kitchen Cabinet (hoosier-type cabinet). People always ask the same questions; "what color should I paint mine?". Like I tell them, it is your choice, and if you want to be true to the manufacturer, you can only get close to the original color since no one is left from the 1900 era when they were built, and no one knows the actual color codes. As someone said earlier, there is no 'color police' that are going to arrest you if you use the wrong color.

Like me, many people reading this board are doing so for the first time. To them, trying to do things right, they ask the age old questions about paint. I plead guilty to that. So what is to one, is a new, legitimate question to another.

If you go to any 3 paint supplier who claims to have a code for IH Red, you will get 3 slightly different shades of red. So who can say what is truly IH Red? My son-in-laws' father restores the big tractors for pulls. He has an International Farmall 300. Having painted it with IH Red from the local Farmall parts supplier, his Farmall looks darker than other Farmalls sitting next to it. So....

I've decided that I am going to use a variation of IH Red, but have not decided on a supplier. I don't like the Valspar since it takes so long to dry, and I can't stand to wait. Working weekend only, 48 hours is a long time to wait for a single coat to dry.

[chesbaycruiser 83]

Regarding the photo of the paint samples....I would trust your eye over the photograph. Period.

There's lots of variables contributing to the display of those photos. What the camera captures is rarely what the human eye sees due to wide variation of camera settings possible. (This is why we take so many crappy photos! ) Also, the conversion to digital can effect the image output, especially the interpolation of color. And as was mentioned, no two monitors display the image the same.

My guess is the primary difference you are seeing--photographic anomalies aside--is a result of subltle variations in the reflective qualities of the different paints. These would be especially visible if your photo was taken using a flash. The strobe is much brighter than your normal viewing light and would magnify reflective differences. This, combined with the factors above result in the differences in the photo that may not be readily visible to the eye.

Having said all that, I agree you go with whichever color you like, based on whichever factors you determine are important!

Good luck on your project Bob. (And for the record, recently I've been a bit with a few paint color questions of my own!)

[KC9KAS 4,741]

On a previous post, I read that Rustoluem REGAL RED was a "close match" for the WH's. I just bought a few cans, and some red oxide colored primer. I guess I will find out if it matches, or if I like/hate it!

I have also read that Benjimen Moore BRILLANT RED # 20 and NEW TORO RED is a"match".

As said many times before, paint it to "What you like"!

[linen beige 14]

"Originally, the Ponds would ask the manufacturer (O'Brien Paint Company) to mix their paint as close a match to International Red as possible"

Ah yes! Butcha gotta read that sentence in context.

The Ponds wanted to match the International red of the 1940s, NOT what we now know as IH red.

[Save Old Iron 1,566]

The Ponds wanted to match the International red of the 1940s, NOT what we now know as IH red.

Good point Jim

But unless O'Brien Paints has retain lots from the 1940's, the holy grail still remains lost.

That is why I mentioned if International Red CHANGES in color , then the "make it look like IH red" Wheel Horse Red probably changed too". I know from watching posts here and real world observation, color changes have occurred in the Wheel Horse lineup over the years. Pigments disappear from the market, lead has been removed, etc, all contributing to changes in what would have been the 1940's official IH color. So if IH cannot get the pigments, Wheel Horse cannot get them either, so they both change together so they can stay alike.

Now I'm dizzy

I'm outa here, got a 416-8 seat pan to spray IH resto red this morning !!

Cheers

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