702 with hy-2

[stevasaurus 22,857]

got a 702 with a hydro type-2 lift...wanted to put the snow blade on it this winter instead of the 857. Like the roundhood. The lift works with no load, but will not pick up the plow off the ground. I do not see any leaks, and I really know nothing about hydrolics. A manual would be nice, checking Yahoo Gps for that. I guess it could be low on fluid, but I do not know how to check and what to add. Thought I would get a little more aqquainted with it today. I did a search on this site using HYDRO, got a bunch of posts but no one actually talking about the unit and how it works.

Appreciate any help and advice.

pulled off the unit: HEIN WERNER manufacturer...model = A4CCWH

serial #42050

everyone at the show that looked at it said it looked like a HY-2...did not see that anywhere.

[stevasaurus 22,857]

OK...got a manual by joining the yahoo group 3...I don't know...added a tablespoon

of powersteering fluid that filled up the resewvoire...so it wasn't really down....

the piston was in during the check...not extended.

read the manual...checked for leaks...I have to admit, I get a drip at the low end of the piston...but I was not low on fluid, and the drip is minimal and not the cause...although

I would want to fix it. I do get a hesitation about halfway through the extention of the piston...like it might be bent...although it does not look bent at all...all this with no load...I don't think the piston is bent...I think the pump sutters at this point for some reason. Don't want to point you in a direction...just let you know what I saw.

Going to put the blade back on tomorrow and make sure that there is no obstructions. At this point...I'm lost...need some help. :notworthy:

[chazm 413]

Hi Steve- haven't worked on any WH hyd systems, but there all about the same.

Pump - control valve - Cyl. & hoses connect it all together.

One of the biggest problems is if there is air in the system.

Try running the cyl out completely & back in several times to see if that works any air out of the system. Also listen to the pump & valve to see if they are making any noise - a high pitch wine from the pump is low on fluid.

Hope this gets you in the right direction

:thumbs:

[stevasaurus 22,857]

Thanks for responding Chaz...been watching all day off and on for some direction..

no air in system that I can tell...ran the 702 for 1/2 hour at different speeds after I

refilled with a TBS of fluid. No noise from the pump...everything seems normal. I do not know at this point. I will try the blade tomorrow...thinking I can help lift the blade...see if something is in the way (I do not hink so) and see if the hydrolics hold the blade up...if it lets the blade down, and can not left it again...I am at a loss.

any help and what I try tomorrow...let you know :notworthy:

[fireman 1,022]

Steve,

I just saw this post and I will try to help you out as I have rebuilt two of the HY-2s. I would recomend pulling off the pump, hoses and piston. Believe it or not there is nothing to rebuilding them. The piston uses standard o-ring and backup washers to seal it. Inside the pump is nothing more than two gears and two shafts along with the large shaft/control that sends the fluid through the the proper passages when you move the lever. That also uses standard o-rings to seal it. It took me about three hours to take it apart, clean everything up. and replace the o-rings and backup washers.

My best guess why it won't lift the plow is fluid is getting by the o-rings in the piston under load and just recirculating back into the pump.

[chazm 413]

Steve - did I read in another thread something about cracked ribs & caughing up a lung????? <_<

DON"T over do your self Dude or I'll tell on ya

:thumbs:

[TJ 175]

Never worked on one, so any advice I would have would be a joke. :notworthy:

[gattonde 1]

Hey Steve,

I am going to look at a 702 (no hydraulics) when I get home from travel on Wednesday. If he excepts my offer and it looks good I plan to purchase it. Just one more thing we will have in common.

Good luck with your hydraulics overhaul, I am sure you can handle the rebuild.

Dan

[Indy w h 5]

Steve, If the hy-2 has been sitting for awhile with no use the pressure ball is

stuck. You need to take the pump apart and on the side of casting there is a

big slotted screw head. Take the screw out then the spring then the 5/16 ball

if it is rusty you need to replace the ball. This is what builds pressure if it is

stuck the pump will NOT work. All the parts are gettable if you have any

questions give me a p/m and I'll help ya further.

Indy

[Indy w h 5]

Oops almost frogot to tell you to clean it out with parts solovent

then replace o-rings then reassemble

Indy

[linen beige 14]

Just a thought.. Is the roll pin in the rock shaft broken or missing? I'm talking about inside the hood stand where the two halves of the rock shaft assembly go together.

[stevasaurus 22,857]

thanks guys for the help...got my daughter helping me in a few minutes to do a little trouble shooting.

Chaz...yes, I cracked a couple of ribs coughing...picked up a little pneumonia...getting better now..can cough a little and not kill myself with that stabbing pain. That was a tough go for awhile. Fior Sure to take it easy. TJ got me yesterday on one of the threads...and he just got me again today.

Dan... ...you knew I was going to say that. You will love the 702, they are just so much fun to ride...that's why I want the plow on mine.

Thanks for the confidence in me, Fireman and Indy, after looking at the manual, I saw it might not be a bad rebuild. The horse did sit for about 15 years, so the O-rings and that stop ball are a target. Can I get a kit at the Toro dealer, Tractor Supply, or a hyd place? or maybe a auto-parts store?

Jim, I thought the arm and pin were good...saw the arm move up and down with no load...but you are right..I'll take a good look.

the bad news is they are saying we could get some white stuff on Thanksgiving.

May have to put the plow on the 857 unil I get the hyd fixed. Nice to have more then one horse. :WRS:

[CasualObserver 3,408]

Steve, never been inside the pump myself, but I saved these photos from a webpage I found a while back where someone photo-documented their HY2 rebuild. The page itself is not there anymore, but here's the pics from it.

Maybe they'll help a little.

 

In the upper left you will see the original 1447 seal still available but now listed under part number 5959.

Before this was replaced fluid was leaking from the pulley shaft while the engine was running.

Remove your front hose and fitting and the cylinder and piston can be tapped out to get to the O-Rings. Before the o-rings were replaced fluid would puddle under the cylinder.

 

 

 

 

 

[stevasaurus 22,857]

Thanks Jason, that will help alot. I think I will do a documentation of mine with pics, if that is alright.

Did the trouble shooting today:

the plow does fit the 702 with nothing in the way of it working

the pin bolt in the lift mechanism was OK.

The HY-2 would still not pick up the plow, and if we helped lift the plow, the fluid would bypass something and the plow would drop back to the ground.

Gentlemen...a rebuild is in order. Please point me in a direction for parts

thanks and the plow is now on the 857...let it snow...my daughter and I took the 2 horses for a ride around the block when we were done (mini-parade) got some looks and some thumbs up honks. :thumbs:

[Indy w h 5]

Steve did you take the whole pump apart ???? What did the 5/16 ball look like

was it all pitted? No ya can't go to toro and get a rebuild kit it's obsolete. I have

a co.that sellsalmost everything so I can get the o-rings oil seal backer ring and

canister gasket and ball bearing.

Gimme a parts list and I'll c what you need

Indy

[Suburban 550 28]

Steve, never owned a HY-2 or worked on one. I'm sure these guys are pointing you in the right direction. Good luck on the rebuild and take care of them ribs. We have all the faith in the world in ya. :notworthy:

[stevasaurus 22,857]

Ray, you don't know how huch that means to me...thanks

Indy, I am going to send you a PM...thanks also...going to try to do a rebuild

that is worthy of Ian in the UK

got all winter and I can do this in the basement...not like painting in the garage in the winter....I was looking for something to do.

Kelly or Duke...if you read this...the return spring is broke and there was a guy at the Charlott show that was selling those springs...can you give me his name or e-mail...as long as I am going to rebuild this...might as well do it right and proper.

:banghead:

[fireman 1,022]

I need a couple of those springs also!

[stevasaurus 22,857]

I think they were $25 a piece, fireman...I think Jobob said he bent his own with piano wire...may have been Jason (lord helmutt). Might have been Refracman (steve) We get there.

I need a defrag....keep you in the loop...thanks

[Indy w h 5]

http://www.normstoys.com/

get ahold of norm he carries both types of springs

Indy

[linen beige 14]

I think they were $25 a piece, fireman...I think Jobob said he bent his own with piano wire...may have been Jason (lord helmutt). Might have been Refracman (steve) We get there.

I need a defrag....keep you in the loop...thanks

It was me. You can make your own for pennies.

I agree with Fireman. It sounds like fluid is bypassing one or more of the O rings inside the lift cylinder.

The O rings are standard hardware items and can be bought any place that sells O rings. I picked mine up at O'Reilly's while I was there for some other things. I have the sizes written down somewhere, but having just moved, I can't find them right now.

The shaft seal is still available (part #5959/ $1549 at Parts tree/ $17.65 from Toro). The obsolete reservoir to pump gasket can be cut from fibre material very easily. The washer with the rubber gasket on one side (goes on end of rod that runs through reservoir) is a standard hardware item available from any hardware store/ home center. I didn't need to replace my check ball so didn't look for any.

The coil type spring used in the later units is available from IH dealers for about $7. (The pumps were made by Hein-Werner and used on several brands, including Cubs.).

I tore mine down last fall and replaced the O rings. It took an afternoon. Before replacing them it was getting increasingly sluggish and would not hold a plow up for more than a few seconds after shutting off the engine. Now it will hold the plow for days.

I run mine with light hydraulic fluid but power steering fluid/ATF will work also.

[stevasaurus 22,857]

Jim...I was hopping to find out where I heard about the piano wire thingy. Are there different guages...did you heat it so it would remember...make a jig, etc?

As far as the oil...can I use brake fluid, ATF or something else...the manual seems to be a little picky about the right oil...which would probably come from Toro.

any thoughts...thanks

going out now to take it off the horse.

[HorseFixer 2,012]

http://www.normstoys.com/

get ahold of norm he carries both types of springs

Indy

I got my springs From Norm at the Charlotte show. I have a HY-2 to do on my 701 that Im fixin to get back on! Mine worked fine just a lil leakin and needs the spring thing done as it does not return to the neutral position. Anyone find the Piano spring trick lemme know I may make a bender and jig for them. :notworthy:

[linen beige 14]

Anyone find the Piano spring trick lemme know

As my post above says, I was the one that made my own spring. From music wire. Just bend it to the right shape, bake in the oven for an hour or so at 500 degs (to remove the bending stresses or "work hardening") and install.

The wire that I used was just a hair thinner than the original spring but works fine.

If you're planning to bend your own, here's a couple of tips to make it easier. Start with the two right angled bends in the middle. I bent mine around the square edges of a small vise. That will give you a pair of legs that can be wrapped around a mandrel (I used a small drill rod)at the same time so they come out matching. Slowly cut them to length with a cutoff wheel and put it to work.

Also, as I posted, IH dealers have the coil spring (WH part #5261) used in the later pumps for around $7. Less than a third of Norm's price.

[Indy w h 5]

Hey Jim

Indy here. you stated that the IH dealers still carry the spring?? I've called 3 dealers around me

and they said they are OBSOLETE!! They even called other dealers and got the same reply!! So

what dealer you callin and where are they located???

Thanks Indy