D-180 with no spark

[goatchay 0]

Hi to all,

This is my first post here. Just found the site and I've been browsing through the threads for a few hours now. Great site with a wealth of knowledge.

My dad and I are trying to get his D180 running. It has been sitting for about 10 years. Initially the galvanization in the gas tank broke down, crudding up the fuel lines, filter and carb, etc. My dad tried to recoat the tank when this happened, but had no luck.

He later acquired a Yanmar tractor and flail mower and began to use that to mow the property, so the D180 sat for years, until now. I've been on him to try and get it running (it was the first thing I ever drove as a child, when he taught me how to cut the grass, and I have just hated seeing it parked under the shed for all these years).

Recently I bought a used tank in good condition. Hooked it up yesterday with new fuel line and filter and after a proper carb cleaning. To our surprise, the engine turned over fine and seems to have strong compression. But no spark to the plugs.

I've searched for the last few hours for similar threads and in some ways I'm more confused that before, what side is positive and negative on the coil, etc. Everyone's tractor seems to be a little different I guess.

Anyway, I was wondering what the proper steps to take in troubleshooting it would be. I'm Ok at fuel issues but very lacking in knowledge of electrical systems. I'm assuming the problem could either be in the ignition switch, points (which have been cleaned BTW), condenser, or the coil. I'm not sure of the proper way to troubleshoot things.

I read in another post that described a way of disconnecting the "kill" wire from the ignition switch, but I can't find that and I'm not exactly sure what it was supposed to determine. It is a 5 terminal switch, which according to the manual has a terminal for Start, Accessory, Ignition, Rectifier, and Battery.

The start engages fine and the motor turns freely. Anyway, I sure would apprecite someone pointing me in the right direction. My dad lives here in Louisiana and I'm in town from Houston for a few days to visit, sure would like to have it running before I left. I think it is a '73 or '74 model BTW.

Also, when I go to the Toro website to look up parts, I can't access anything because I don't have a model number for it. I realize that it's not "d180" but the number I got off of the tag for the tractor doesn't work either. The tag is worn but I'm pretty sure it reads "1 0601 8" for the model and "954914" for the serial number.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks,

Chris

[goatchay 0]

Chris again, I forgot to ask one question in the initial post, is there a replacement wire loom available for the mower, ie. an entire premade harness/loom with all associated connections, etc.? There is a part number 103984 for "main wiring harness" but I didn't know if that was for the entire electrical system for the tractor? Thanks again,

Chris

[KB9LOR 4]

Okay I will try and help you with the Model number first:

if that is indeed your model number is 1 0601 8 put in in here as this:

1-0601 and if that doesn't work put in 1-06018 that should do it, go here and put it in the model search

https://lookup3.toro.com/partdex/index.cfm?xCaller=Toro

Now you said you had no spark, here is how I got mine to fire, facing the front of your tractor, on the front of the engine , on the left side there should be a cover held in place with a screw, it bulges out, under here are your points, remove the cover and I take a fine small file and gently run it between the points, just enough to clean them not enough to make a pile of shavings, of it get that far you are in trouble lol, now after I do that I have someone turn over the engine as I watch for the points to spark and if they do I replace and viola, you now check for fire/spark, I do this with the plug removed, that way I see the fire, if I have in fact found the problem. I hope this helps, I do know there are way more people on here that are more knowledgable than I am, but try that for verification of points creatingt the fire/spark.

"UPDATE" Chris putting in 1-0601 in the link above does indeed bring up your tractor.

Brian

[gwgdog66 23]

Hi Chris,

Lets see if this works. It should be a direct link to the K series Kohler service manual, picture of the coil is on page 74.

http://www.kohlerengines.com/onlinecatalog/pdf/tp_2379.pdf

Brian beat me to this part.

If it isn't getting any spark to the plug you can file and regap the points.

[KB9LOR 4]

GWG I don't even regap, I just "shine" them up a bit and it gets it going, every time so far..knock on wood, I would have regapped, but it has always worked without having to.

Brian

[gwgdog66 23]

I always file too much off so I have to regap the points :scratchead:

[KB9LOR 4]

I always file too much off so I have to regap the points

Dang had a good chuckle with the face under the the chair......I am paranoid I will do that, and add work to my already overworked self lol, which is why I have been lucky not to have to regap!

Brian

[d180man 5]

Hi good luck with it ! :hide:

[goatchay 0]

Hi guys,

Thanks for the replies, I really appreciate it. Thanks for the link to the engine manual, I have that now, it is a Kohler K482 twin 18hp.

The points appear to be in great shape and evenly worn with no discoloration or buildup. I used some fine sandpaper (400 and 320 grit), opened the points then let them close on the sandpaper and pulled it through a few times, they look shiny now.

My dad said that the gap for the points was .020, which he read somewhere was about the thickness of a matchbook cover, and that's about what the gap looks like.

After that, we still had no spark at the points when the engine turned. I removed both plugs and grounded them to the mufflers and no spark there either. The coil is reading 12 volts on the positive side (the side with the condenser) and 0 on the negative side (the side with the lead going to the points).

Could it be the condenser or even the ignition switch itself?

KB9LOR, thanks for the tip on the model number, I will try that ASAP. According to the manual though, the model number should be long, with some of the numbers indicating engine size, some transmission manufacture- S for Sundstrand, etc.). This number doesn't look like that at all, but it is one the riveted tag right below the dash.

I was really hoping that starting it was going to be limited to fuel problems, since that's what parked it in the first place. My dad says that there were no electrical issues when he parked it, just the tank issue. But that was 10 years ago. Mice had made a nest in the mower, but I can't see any evidence that they chewed any wires, they all seem to be intact.

Thanks again,

Chris

[KB9LOR 4]

Your welcome, and follow that link, and type it in 1-0601 and it will come up click on "View assembly drawings", then click on "View product features" for more info.

And as far as the fire problem, swap out that condenser, it more than likely has to be it now, That is what I would do, I do not thank it is the switch as it is turning over, just not firing, it has to be in the ingnition, 3 basics of small enigine or any engine for that matter:

1) Fuel

2)Spark and at the right time.

3) Compression, somewhere around 60psi and above in small engines otherwise they will not create combustion to run. Sorry to ramble on, just trying to help.

Brian

[goatchay 0]

Thanks again for the info on the model number Brian, you were absolutely right, put that dash in and it came up fine! I still haven't navigated too much around there yet so thanks for the tips on finding the drawings, etc. I'll check it out.

I'll replace the condenser as recommended. Is it pretty much a generic part or does it have to come from the dealer?

Also, I read in a different thread that the condenser can be disconnected and if the engine starts it points to the condenser as faulty.

Is that correct? Can you start the engine without the condenser?

Thanks again for the warm welcome. My dad two other Wheelhorses when I was a child that I'm going to try and get back. He gave them to a friend of his for free, who apparently restored them but never uses them. I might see if he still has them and if he would ever want to part with them one day. It would be cool to see them again. One was an 8 hp with a manual transmission and the other was a 10 hp hydro with a 36" rear discharge deck. I don't know what model they were, but they are only one town over if he still has them.

Chris

[goatchay 0]

Thanks again for the info on the model number Brian, you were absolutely right, put that dash in and it came up fine! I still haven't navigated too much around there yet so thanks for the tips on finding the drawings, etc. I'll check it out.

I'll replace the condenser as recommended. Is it pretty much a generic part or does it have to come from the dealer?

Also, I read in a different thread that the condenser can be disconnected and if the engine starts it points to the condenser as faulty.

Is that correct? Can you start the engine without the condenser?

Thanks again for the warm welcome. My dad two other Wheelhorses when I was a child that I'm going to try and get back. He gave them to a friend of his for free, who apparently restored them but never uses them. I might see if he still has them and if he would ever want to part with them one day. It would be cool to see them again. One was an 8 hp with a manual transmission and the other was a 10 hp hydro with a 36" rear discharge deck. I don't know what model they were, but they are only one town over if he still has them.

Chris

[goatchay 0]

Sorry for the double post, don't know how that happened.

[dgoyette 12]

Sorry for the double post, don't know how that happened.

Has happened to me a time or tow as well. I think on this site you can edit after the fact if you want.

On the points - I know it is accepted as a gap of .020 but it should be noted that Kohler says to set to a maximum of .020. I would take a minute to check with a gauge.

The condenser should have high resistance on a multimeter. If so, you can rule that out quickly.

So far all the coils I have seen are left side neg - right side positive. Did you pull the wires and take a peek inside the coil for corrosion?

Does your D have safety switches? If so I would check those with a multimeter as well. Although from looking at the schematics the starter shouldn't turn if a safety switch is defective because they are wired to the solenoid.

[goatchay 0]

Well, got back to work on the D180 on Sunday. Took off the condenser, headed to O'Reilly's to try and match it up, but no such luck, there are no numbers or values on it, and the Kohler part number apparently could not be cross referenced.

Went back to the tractor and started looking at connections, replaced a few that were probably alright anyway. Checked the points gap with a proper gauge, it was between .016 and .018.

Hooked the battery back up (which was borrowed from my dad's Yanmar) and as I did, I noticed the the terminal didn't arc when I connected it. I know the battery was good because it started up the Yanmar, but even so, I put it on the charger before I ever even attempted any work on the D180 and it showed a full charge.

The battery terminals on the tractor are the sidemount, screw in type. I assumed I was getting a good connection all along because I was screwing in the postive terminal all the way into the battery. You could tell it was good and snugged up tightly, which I why I sort of prefer these to the top post clamp type terminals. I've had those look tight and snug and if I bumped it hard enough it would rotate on the battery post and ride up and loosen just enough to lose connection.

Anyway, assumed I was getting a good connection because it was nice and tight. The postive terminal is completely covered in the red rubber protective thingy, so that you can't really see the recessed part of the terminal which is the part making contact with the battery. Unless you really look hard, which I didn't.

Also, working in daylight seems to help The first day we started working on it, it was already dark by the time we started, so we just used some lamps.

Well, since I didn't notice any arcing when I screwed the positive terminal on, I took it off and flipped it over. The underside had a nice green coating of corrosion. Wire wheeled it to a nice and shiny state and reconnected it. Turned the key and bam! Fired right up.

I officially feel like a complete DUMB@SS!

I just assumed I was getting a good connection because everything was nice and tight and I knew that the battery was good. I still feel like a fool.

Well, it ran fine for a couple of minutes until the tank ran dry, had only put a little gas in there in case I was unable to get it to run.

I had bypassed the impulse fuel pump and just held the tank up high. So today I hooked everything up properly and crossed my fingers that the pump would work. Poured about a gallon in and it fired up on the first crank. It stumbled after 30 seconds or so. I guess the pump had to prime. After that, it just purred along.

Ran it for about 10 minutes through the whole throttle range. Ran fine at WOT and low rpms. Just perfect. I think me and my dad both were a little surprised at how well it ran, especially after sitting for 10+ years.

But I suspect that there are hydro problems ahead. I tried to lift the deck and nothing happened when I moved the hydro lever up or down. There does appear to be alot of seepage etc. around the hydro levers in the dash and down by the tranny. But it's always been like that since we've owned it and it worked fine.

I tried to put it in reverse, since our forward motion is blocked by the shed wall. It tried to reverse but not very strongly. It does have a flat left front wheel and right rear wheel, so maybe it was the resistance of the tires. At any rate, I didn't try it any more because I didn't want to push it too hard.

We will change the engine oil and tranny oil on Tuesday. This is one of the Kohler 18's without the oil filter, so I don't have to worry about crossreferencing that. But I need to find out what hydraulic filter to use for the tranny. No Toro dealers nearby so I will try to get a Wix. The manual calls for 10w-30 or 40 for the tranny. Hopefully it a fluid change will fix things. I suspect that at the very least it is low, if not empty.

I did have a question though. Is it necessary to bleed the hydraulic system, or is it just like changing the engine oil--drain and refill?

Thanks again to everyone for all of the help. I live in Houston and I'm down for a few days to visit my dad in La. so I'm really glad that we at least got it running before I have to head back. But I really do want to get it into operating shape before I leave. I'll try and take a few pics to post. BTW, it is an 18 Automatic, not a D180 as I said. I always thought it was a D180 for some reason.

Dgoyette, thanks for the tip on the gap, you were right, it is set below .020 and runs just right. As far as the coil, I'm still a little confused on that issue. If you are sitting on the tractor, the left side of the coil has the condenser and a lead that goes to the points? Is that the negative side? The right side of the coil has one lead going back to the starter solenoid I believe, which I assumed to be positive? I'm not sure. We got it probably in the late 70's and I don't think my dad has ever changed the coil. Maybe the previous owner did and flip flopped it?

Thanks again,

Chris

Chris

[Save Old Iron 1,566]

:scratchead:

[dgoyette 12]

Quote "If you are sitting on the tractor, the left side of the coil has the condenser and a lead that goes to the points? Is that the negative side? The right side of the coil has one lead going back to the starter solenoid I believe, which I assumed to be positive?"

This is correct Chris.

That is so awesome you got it started - don't feel dumb! There are so many things to check. But it's a good reminder to start at the beginning and work your way upstream.

So happy to hear how great she runs too after sitting for so long. There is no real purge process as far as I know. When I changed mine I just let it run for a while before trying to move it or use the lift. Do not overfill. After draining I would suggest adding 4 quarts and check as you will not remove all of the old oil with draining. Remember to run it to fill the filter and check again to top off.

The Wix filter is 51410 - hydraulic filter.

[KB9LOR 4]

You feel like a DA! I ASSUMED (There's that @ss-you-me word)lol, You said it would turn over but would not fire, I just went through the very same thing and did not put 2 and 2 together, you had enough juice to turn it over, but not enough to fire, Boy I missed that one, anyways glad to hear the old Horse is running, what a great feeling eh! Have fun with it!

Brian

P.S. I bought the wix filter over at CarQuest auto parts, NAPA wants 13 and some change for it.

[gwgdog66 23]

Good to hear you have it running :scratchead:

[goatchay 0]

Hi everyone, thanks for the kind words. I'm glad we got it running, too.

Still feel like and idiot though. I was just thinking that since the starter was getting spun out that there would be enough juice to create spark, but obviously not. Should have checked the connections as step 1.

Picked up a new air filter and all of the fluid and associated filters. Thanks for the tip on the Wix crossreference number Brian. Saved me alot of time, that's the kind of thing that you can blow an hour on just trying to search for the info online. I didn't even know what the original Wheelhorse filter was.

I picked up a Napa Gold 51410 at Napa for $7. Apparently the Napa filter is made by Wix, which I am pleased about, all I use on my truck is Wix. There seem to be two hex nut drain plugs. The one towards the rear near the hitch was stripped out. So I used the one towards the front.

Let it drain for about an hour. I replaced the filter and put the plug back in. I put in 4 quarts as recommended by dgoyette. Thanks again for that tip, I could easily have just tried to dump 5 quarts in there. Also, for the info regarding purging the system, or lack of doing it, I guess.

I haven't run it yet, the mosquitos were getting brutal out back and I had to call it a night. I will run it tomorrow. I took the deck off so I can get a good luck underneath for leaks, etc.

I do have a dilemma though. I have seen some pics of the transmission that show a dipstick on the top of the transmission. All this tractor has is a 1/2" plug, like a pipe plug. So how can I know when it's at the right level?

I guess I can make a dipstick out of anything just to stick in there, but I don't know how high it should mark on the stick?

Right now, it looks like the level is about 1" from the bottom of the threads, maybe 3/4". I don't know if that's too much or not enough? Did they come with a dipstick type filler? Maybe the previous owner just put that cap on there.

Anyway, thanks again for all of the help, I would not have gotten this far without it.

Chris

[KB9LOR 4]

I am not in the know on that tranny, never saw a 180, someone on here should be able to answer that better than I, glad all of us here could help you, and have fun with your Horse!

Brian

[goatchay 0]

Hey Brian,

Thanks. I really am happy that we got it running. It's still kind of hard to believe after having seen it sit in the shed for so many years. And I'm really surprised at how good it actually does run, I don't remember it running this well when we were using it when I was kid. I guess I thought it would take a lot of carb tinkering, etc. but it just starts on the first bump of the key and runs strong. I just really am excited about it. More than my dad is even I think.

I never did add any more fluid to the hydro. I want to get some info from folks on here who know about it--I'd hate to screw something at this point. But it definitely has a few quarts in it, so today I let it run for a few minutes, then aired up the tires and eased it into reverse. It seemed to run alright. Maybe it was the resistance of the flat tires that made it feel weak the other day. I couldn't believe it was rolling! That's the first time it has seen the sunlight in a really long time.

Pushed it into forward and all seemed well. I only went about 30 ft. or so then turned around and came back. I didn't want to open it up until I'm sure about the tranny fluid level. It instantly threw me back to when I was a kid. I spent many days on that tractor cutting grass and loved every minute of it.

It looks so weird to actually see it parked outside in a different place. I'm going to take some pics of it tomorrow and post them if I can figure out how to.

This is all a little bittersweet though because I'm headed back to Houston in a few days and won't see the tractor again for a few months I guess, whenever I can make it back over here to La.

I'll probably be moving back here within the next year. At that point I'd really like to try and do a semi-restoration on it. A nice coat of paint at least. My dad will probably use it just for towing stuff around since he now cuts with the flail mower. He told me to take it back to Houston but it would be kind of a funny sight to use at my house. I live in a subdivision and it would be overkill to mow my grass with it, to say the least.

Regardless, I'm very glad we got it going and I want to thank everyone here for all of the help and advice.

I may post the transmission fluid question in the appropriate forum and see if it catches anyone's eye over there.

Thanks again,

Chris

[KB9LOR 4]

Well Chris, I do have an Electro 12 w/Hydro, and I too have the tranny check under the seat, the plug I have in mine, has the dipstick on the bottom of it, so easy to check mine, someone on here would know, did you ever find the model#, that would help bunches finding out what it has or originally had. I too am a newbie to Wheelhorses, been into it a few weeks, and still learning, Great that you still have the WH you had growing up, wish I had mine, still can't remember the model# on it though, but all is well, but remember you could take it home with ya and work on it in your garage, nothing saying you can't do a little restoration, but it could get tempting. lol! And do'nt be afraid of taking her around the block, like all horses they love to run!

Brian

Forgot you posted the Model# earlier in the thread, It is a "D" Series, but no true number designation Can anyone help out here? Or should there even be one?

Model # Serial Year Product Name

1-0601 None - None 1973 18 hp AutomaticTractor

Feature List Model Number 1-0601

Model Year 1973

Beginning Serial # None

Ending Serial # None

Product Name 18 hp AutomaticTractor

Product Brand Wheel Horse

Product Type Riding Products

Product Series Garden Tractor, D Series

Swath Deck Optional

Discharge Deck Optional

Engine/Motor Manufacturer Kohler

Engine/Motor Model # K482S-35209B

Engine/Motor Size # 18 hp

Engine/Motor Type 4 Cycle

Engine Starter Electric

Transmission Manufacturer Sundstrand

Transmission Model # 90-1137

Transmission Speed Infinitely Variable

Transmission Type Hydrostatic

Copyright

[goatchay 0]

Hey Brian,

My dad said the same thing, to just take it back home a maybe work on it in Houston. It is very tempting and I will be hauling back an empty trailer. But I have so much junk lying around right now in such a small yard, I really have no place for it.

I was hoping to get rid of alot of stuff before I came down but didn't have a chance. I will be putting a few things on craigslist when I get back and hopefully that will make some room.

It actually would be nice to bring it to Houston and put a coat a paint on it, along with a few other fixes, that way when I moved back to La. next year it would be ready to go.

I will still try and accomplish that, if I can make some room.

Well, still haven't gotten any additional info on the tranny but it was just too tempting to pass up, so today I really let her rip. Rode around the property at WOT and full speed for quite a while. It was a blast! I really forgot how fast of a tractor it was. It ran wonderfully. Took a couple of pics with my dad on it, it was his birthday today. I'll post them when I get back to Houston this weekend.

I pressure washed most of the accumulated grease off of it and hit all the grease zerks I could find. I could only find one on the steering, although there is supposedly 2? The one I found was on the bottom of the steering gear, pretty much facing straight down to the ground. Don't know if that is the bell crank zerk or not?

Regarding the model number, it believe it was 1-0601 and calls for 6 quarts of tranny fluid. But I just don't know when I am at 6 qts. because of the lack of the dipstick.

As dgoyette recommended, I only put 4 into it because he said the all of it will not drain out. It's about an inch from the bottom of the threads, but I just don't know if that's the correct level since I just have the pipe plug and not the dipstick.

BTW, I do travel from Houston to just south of Lafayette La. fairly frequently and have a trailer, so if any other members need things moved along the I-10 corridor in that area, feel free to let me know. Thanks again guys. I'm going to click over to the tranny thread and see if anyone has some insight on the tranny fluid question.

Chris

[dgoyette 12]

Chris, Didn't know you didn't have a dipstick. I can measure the length of my dipstick to the full mark so you have an approximate idea of how far from the top of the filler it should be. Maybe won't be able to until tonight though. Off to work.