Well No Spark today

[dgoyette 12]

Well got the FEL issue solved...used the D-180 for about half hour yesterday and backer her in the shed. I go to start her after work today and she starts for about 10 seconds and dies, and won't start back up. I check for spark - none. Nothing going on at the points either.

I just got a new (used) coil too and she was running pretty good. A little rich but good.

So guess I have some more work to do. The thing that is irritating to me is that I was in a hurry to put her away last night so I backed her and left her in the middle of the shed so I cannot get the other tractors out around it because the FEL is in the way.

I guess I will check the condenser first?

[MaineDad 85]

How about the solenoid Darren? Did you try to jump the solenoid directly to the battery?

[dgoyette 12]

HeyMicah,

No I haven't tested that yet. In fact I really haven't had time to test anything. But there is no issue with the starter, it turns just fine. Is there any other reason besides starter testing to jump the solonoid? I do see a RED wire going from the solenoid to the Hydro Safety Switch. I am not sure where this switch is or if it is still operational. I will have to trace.

I pulled out the schematics last night. I was thinking I was going to work backwards starting at the coil since I just put the new used one on. I should be able to tell pretty quick if there is power going to that with a multimeter just by testing the posts right?

The wiring on this D is not great and I actually planned on an entire re-wire at some point. Years of different owners can take a toll on wiring on a 35 year old tractor. Change here, a crimp there can turn into a mess over time! I was going to do it when I had time to focus on re-wire the gauges which is not now.

Thanks for the input Micah.

[bitten 134]

Darren:

Did you check both cyclinders to see if you are getting spark? I tried the new to me used coil on my D and it worked for about 2 weeks and then I had to buy a new/new one and now it runs better then the day I bought it.

Something to look at,

P.J.

[dgoyette 12]

Hi P.J.,

Yes I did check both coil wires. Nothing.

I am hoping I didn't waste money by going used on the coil - probably not worth the risk and should have just gone new. These D coils are not marked for -/+ so I am assuming it really doesn't matter which is used for (-) an which for (+) does it? I just connected it exactly as it was which was (-)condenser and points on left, (+) on right side.

I do still have the old coil which was working intermittently so maybe I will hook that back up and see if she starts before really digging in.

[bitten 134]

Darren:

I do believe that the condenser does go on the left side but it should be the positive side as well. By left I meen as you are sitting on the seat, with the wires faceing you. I would have to go out and check for sure, but I will do that after bit and give you a run down on how mine is.

P.J.

[MaineDad 85]

Darren,

I do believe there is a specific positive and negative side. Hopefully you had them on the right terminals. Napa sells the coils BTW.

[bitten 134]

Darren:

OK, I looked the wire(spark plug wire) posts are pointed towards the front of the tractor, still setting on the seat the wire comeing from the points are on the left with the condensor.

Hope this helps,

P.J.

[dgoyette 12]

Thanks PJ and Micah,

BTW Micah - I saw Bill the other day and he thought he had my TSC hat - is it yours by chance?

So I hurried home after work to look at the D.

The wires are set up to the coil correctly. Condenser and points to left post which I assumed must be negative. Maybe I will learn something but doesn't the post connected to the points have to be neg? Doesn't the point work by continuosly breaking the ground to create the intermittent spark required based on timing? If this is true then the other post must be wired to the pos battery terminal?

I also checked:

1 condenser - resistance testing was a bit unreliable but it did test to a fairly high resistance of 16.01. I also tried the condenser on the C-160 which I know is good. So I ruled that out.

2 I tested for voltage at the left coil post. When I connect the left post and ground while cranking I get 12 volts. If I have 12 volts there is that telling of anything?

3 Also tried the old coil - no difference.

Any ideas? The points are new but...maybe?

[Save Old Iron 1,566]

Darren,

To check and rule out both your ignition coils as the problem area, set your ohm meter to measure around 20,000 ohms.

Place one lead (doesn't matter which one) of the meter in the spark plug wire socket and touch the other meter lead to one of the smaller terminals - the ground terminal will produce a reading typically 13,000 to 20,000 ohms.

Mark the terminal "-" and then transfer the lead connected to the spark wire to the other small terminal ( assumed + terminal).

The ohm meter should read a very low resistance - typically around 2 - 3 ohms.

Basically, the ground terminal is common to both the primary and secondary circuits.

This will check the internals of the coil and help to identify the + and + terminals. Don't know if changing the + and - makes a difference - in some automotive applications I know it does NOT.

If the coils check OK - on to the wiring that you stated was pretty sketchy.

Let me know if I can be of any further help. Maybe post a pic of the D's ignition / safety switch wiring schematic.

[dgoyette 12]

Thanks for the infor Chuck. I do have a very good update. I checked the coil and it was hooked up correctly for (+) and (-).

So I began looking at wires. Looks like the wires at the ammeter melted together (it doesn't work btw). Either that or it stopped operating and someone intentionally spliced and melted to jump which could be. I undid this and went ahead and made a temporary jumper to make sure there was a good connection. I cleaned up the wire and connections to the rectifier.

Tracing the (+) wire from the left side coil post led me directly to the ignition switch. Safe to say the safety switches are no more???

Anyway it was extremely loose. I removed and crimped it better and put it back on. Turned the ignition key and the points were sparking again!!!! She would die quickly but restart though. I re-crimped the connector again and she started up and kept running.

I was s happy. I quickly took opportunity to move the D back to her corner spot so I can get the other tractors and stuff out of the shed easily.

I guess I will be re-wiring her sooner than latter. There are just too many odd connections and melted, yes melted, connectors. Now that she is where she belongs I am in no hurry though. The D is a long term project for me to get into pristine condition, so I am not going to stress about getting it done quickly.

Much appreciation for the advice given.

[WheelHorse_of_course 99]

1) I am glad you are making progress. A few points:

2) Crimp terminals are made for one use. Recrimping them is a recipe for problems.

3) High resistance (bad) connections are one source of heat. (High current, usually due to a short to ground) is the other.

4) Ideally the terminals should be soldered on. I have worked on a number of old 1950's trucks and a wooden sailboat and the soldered terminals work really well. However, the only other other method I personally feel comfortable with is to use a pro-type crimping connector. I would recommend strongly using the usual wire-cutter-crimper tools for crimping anything.

You won't find the pro-grade crinpers at the hardware store, but they are not hard to get. For example:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/disp...temnumber=97420

5) If it looks like some of the wires may have been replaced then check the wire gauge.

Best of luck

:scratchead:

[dgoyette 12]

Thanks for the tips! The re-crimp was just for testing and will be re-done for sure. Appreciate the advice. I agree that wiring is something that needs to be done right and as simply as possible. Electrical issues down the road because of a quick/poor job are frustrating as all heck.

I hate looking at wires all over the place too. Especially old wires repaired or excessive in length. They should be cut to correct size and run correctly and bundled as much as possible.

Thanks again