6 or 8?

[adsm08 2,636]

So I bought this transaxle at the show two years ago, planning to try to swap into my 855. Price was right, seems to work, except hi-low seems a bit sticky, but at the time I did not realize the differences in the 6 vs the 8 speeds, and the added difficulty of swapping the 8, and so I did not bother to find out which it is.

 

I've been trying ever since to ID it ever since, and always come up with conflicting answers. So what is it?

 

 

[ebinmaine 70,696]

That's an 8

[ebinmaine 70,696]

Here's a  six:

 

 

 

See how the brake drum is right beside the axle tube. 

Yours has a space between the drum and axle. 

[Pullstart 64,491]

1 hour ago, ebinmaine said:

 

 

 

See how the brake drum is right beside the axle tube. 

Yours has a space between the drum and axle. 

The best, truest, identifier.

[kpinnc 13,717]

Looks like 1 inch axles. If that is correct you have an 8 speed with a 4 pinion differential. 

[WHX?? 50,698]

Well sure it's an 8 ... the high low/lever. First glance though it might be a 5060 but no newer than that. The thick hubs & longer hi/low lever. That might have been off a 300 series ... maybe a later C. 

Those would be 1 1/8 axles then KP with a 8 pinion right @stevasaurus ? Would also have the limited slip.

No matter what that would be a good 8 to go through and put in a short frame. 

[ebinmaine 70,696]

2 hours ago, WHX?? said:

Well sure it's an 8 ... the high low/lever. First glance though it might be a 5060 but no newer than that. The thick hubs & longer hi/low lever. That might have been off a 300 series ... maybe a later C. 

Those would be 1 1/8 axles then KP with a 8 pinion right @stevasaurus ? Would also have the limited slip.

 

 

 

2 hours ago, WHX?? said:

No matter what that would be a good 8 to go through and put in a short frame. 

 

Absolutely. 

 

 

 

 

300 series could have had 1" or 1 1/8" axles. 

400, 500 were the latter only. 

 

NO Limited Slip Differential in any Wheelhorse built AFTER 1973 that I'm aware of. 

 

 

[ri702bill 8,962]

The 8 speed is a bit more work to install than a 6 speed. Input pulley, belt, brake hardware, and the later style brake band are needed. Yes, you can do it to a round hood or short frame...

 

[kpinnc 13,717]

9 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

300 series could have had 1" or 1 1/8" axles. 

400, 500 were the latter only. 

 

Correct. The axles in this case determine externally at least what is inside so far as differential type. 

 

1 inch axles would typically have 4 pinion differentials. 

 

1.125 axles would have 8 pinion differentials. 

 

Pre-1974 with 1.125 axles may have limited slip 10 pinion differentials. The easiest way to determine this is by turning one hub to see how the opposite hub turns in response. If it turns the opposite direction, it is NOT limited slip. That would be an 8 pinion. If the opposite hub turns the same direction, it IS limited slip. 

 

The transmission in the pics above appeared to me to have 1 inch axles. That should be a 4 pinion differential regardless of tractor model. 

 

Edit: a transmission with limited slip is a 6 speed. Without it would be an 8 speed. 

Edited yesterday at 02:32 PM by kpinnc

[ebinmaine 70,696]

15 minutes ago, kpinnc said:

Edit: a transmission with limited slip is a 6 speed. Without it would be an 8 speed

 

 

Only 1967 to 1969. From 1970 to 73 they were eight speeds. The brake drum did move.

[stevasaurus 23,061]

You are all kind of right !!  It is an 8 speed.  

For sure it is not a #5060 or a #5071, the drum placement tells us that, but it still could be a #5073...if...it has 1 1/8" axles.  If it has 1 1/8" axles it either has 8 or 10 pinions in the differential.  If it does have 1 1/8" axles, and by looking at it's condition, it could be a #5073 Limited Slip trans, or a #5091 8 pinion trans. 

   If it has 1" axles, game over.  It is a #5086 or a #110996 8 speed with a 4 pinion differential.  All 1" axles are 4 pinion differentials wether they are 3, 4 or 8 speeds.

   If the axles are 1 1/8", shine a light in one of the seat bolt holes and look down the other.  See if you can see how wide the differential is or if can count the number of bolts holding the differential together.  The 10 pinion differential has 5 bolts and is much wider then the 8 pinion differential.  Turning the axles by hand may tell you if LSD, but if the spring is weak it may not work so you can see.  As always, the best way to tell is to open it up.  

[kpinnc 13,717]

3 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

Only 1967 to 1969. From 1970 to 73 they were eight speeds. The brake drum did move.

 

Good point. The diffs are interchangeable. Thank you for the correction. 

[WHX?? 50,698]

Now you guys know why I called Steve in. I have no idea how he remembers all that stuff!

[ebinmaine 70,696]

2 hours ago, WHX?? said:

Now you guys know why I called Steve in. I have no idea how he remembers all that stuff!

 

 

'Cause @stevasaurus is a 🧙‍♂️ wizard. 

[adsm08 2,636]

4 hours ago, WHX?? said:

Now you guys know why I called Steve in. I have no idea how he remembers all that stuff!

 

 

When you deal with something regularly you learn it very well.

 

Ask me almost anything about IDing options on a Ford Ranger between 83 and 2011. I probably know it.

[adsm08 2,636]

I pulled it out of it's corner to take a closer look. Doesn't seem to go into gear correctly, I can only hit one position, and even then the input and output don't seem to be coupled.

 

The only 4-digit number I found on the case was 5312, not sure if that's helpful, but it is 1" axles, open rear.

 

There were some other longer numbers stamped near the 5312, but I didn't copy them down. Right now I'm just going to open it  up and see if I can see why it won't engage.

 

 

So how much work will it be to get this thing into my 855? It has no input pulley or brake band with it, not that my brakes really work anyway. Also, will my existing plow axle bracket from the 3-speed work? I figure I best get this all worked out now so I know what to be looking for at the show.

[ebinmaine 70,696]

40 minutes ago, adsm08 said:

 

 

 

 

So how much work will it be to get this thing into my 855?

 

@Pullstart and @ri702bill can help there.  

 

 

40 minutes ago, adsm08 said:

 

It has no input pulley or brake band with it, not that my brakes really work anyway.

 

Those are readily available.  

 

 

40 minutes ago, adsm08 said:

 

Also, will my existing plow axle bracket from the 3-speed work?

 

Yes. Direct fit.  

 

 

40 minutes ago, adsm08 said:

 

I figure I best get this all worked out now so I know what to be looking for at the show.

 

Linkage would be the main piece I think???

[ri702bill 8,962]

One of the key pieces is using a brake rod from a Raider 10 or 12 hp tractor. The brake band mounts "backwards" from the 4 speed..... See file picture.

Edited 13 hours ago by ri702bill

[stevasaurus 23,061]

All of the numbers you see on the trans mean nothing that helps identify what trans it is.  They are part numbers, maybe a casting date, that's it.  Just figure it is a #5086.  The #110996 is the same trans as the #5086, it is just the number TORO changed to after 1986.  If you think that trans is 1986 or newer, call it a #110996.  One thing that may be different between these two tranies may be axle length.  If they are not the same, pull up IDP's for both horses that used these trans and check axle part numbers...then compare with our axle length list that is "Pinned" at the top of this trans section.