Simple vs reliability model/years

[FLtractor 25]

Evening,

 

Thought today about a very interesting question, no real one right answer, in terms of the simple less to go wrong wheelhorses, compared to more modern technology, parts and electronics. For example, those with starter generators points condensers. Vs more modern systems. Is there a particular timeframe of wheelhorses or models that stand out as more reliable being simpler perhaps a crossover of somewhat modern yet not brand new for garden Wheelhorse tractors. If this question makes sense. 

[ebinmaine 70,699]

3 minutes ago, FLtractor said:

no real one right answer

 

 

This is key.  

 

 

 

 

4 minutes ago, FLtractor said:

Is there a particular timeframe of wheelhorses or models that stand out as more reliable being simpler perhaps a crossover of somewhat modern yet not brand new for garden Wheelhorse tractors

 

Personally  - I prefer the look and feel of the mid 70s rigs.  

 

 

Given the similarities of the safety switches all the way from the early 70s through the mid 80s I'd say anywhere in that range could be discussed.  

 

The dawn of the Magnum engines (1987 ish) eliminated the ignition points and IMHO made a smoother running setup. 

 

[D_Mac 9,136]

I agree with EB. One that sticks out of the ones I have owned would have to be the 1979 C-161 Automatic.  My opinion one of the best. Simple, but a real work horse and comfortable.

[FLtractor 25]

Good points indeed, that 70s-80s definitely is a crossover of the two. But Perhaps I should have phrased it differently.. is there a style of wheelhorse or era that most wheelhorse users and collectors favor… for a reference point how about The Big show.. I’ve seen pictures and videos only but historically since it’s creation.. is there a certian similar characteristic besides just being a Wheelhorse that stands above the rest in terms of #s at the show? Or again just simply personal preference. 
 

[ebinmaine 70,699]

4 minutes ago, FLtractor said:

simply personal preference

 

 

 

But....

The Big Show does have a particular model for attention every year.  

 

FYI I've never been to the Big Show so I'm not the best to actually answer.  

[Blasterdad 3,038]

 

This IS the correct amswer, with the exceptions of the Pond lever steer, Work Horse, & @JoeM's C-141, the best most reliable  is RED. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Racinbob 11,720]

You can easily see the progression to a more complicated system electrically through the years. A quick look at the wiring diagrams will confirm that. The more complicated wiring could result if less reliability.  Physically the steering tower change in 1978 is more dramatic then it first appears. I have a 76 and 78 and access to the center rockshaft is night and day. The later years like my 96 and 05 didn't improve that issue but it's not a reliability thing. 

[JCM 10,017]

Kohler Magnum engine, single or twin with an Eaton 1100 Hydro transmission gets my vote.

[SylvanLakeWH 27,500]

I like the Red ones with Black Hoods... with  motors or gas engines. 

 

[Retired Wrencher 5,635]

8 hours ago, FLtractor said:

Good points indeed, that 70s-80s definitely is a crossover of the two. But Perhaps I should have phrased it differently.. is there a style of wheelhorse or era that most wheelhorse users and collectors favor… for a reference point how about The Big show.. I’ve seen pictures and videos only but historically since itscreation.. is there a certian similar characteristic besides just being a Wheelhorse that stands above the rest in terms of #s at the show? Or again just simply personal preference. 
 

Fltractor: It is up to what you would like to own and collect. I am old so I like the Start/gen years. I have had newer models. Others may feel something a bit newer. Then as you said about the Magnum years that put it into another era. There is an old saying may be you have heard it. K.I.S.S:  Enjoy the sight and what ever you own.

[T-Mo-(Moderator) 4,562]

There are some bad design flaws in all brands, Wheel Horse included.  I.e., plastic hoods and fenders, and the tow lever on the C1X1 series hydrostatic models were hard to almost impossible to get access to.  And if you have a lot of property to maintain, you will want to get access to that lever eventually.  The primary drive belt systems on the Wheel Horses wasn't the most efficient design, robbed a lot of hp getting to the deck.  The angle frame design wasn't as heavy duty as with some competitors.  As with all brands, there's good and the bad.

 

The mid to late 80s Wheel Horses, in my opinion (take or leave it) were the best to where a lot of design flaws were ironed out or removed.  And as mention, the Kohler Magnums were great engines.  The Kohler K series and the Command series were also good engines.  If maintain properly, the Onans were okay as well.  The Eaton 11 transmissions were stronger than the Eaton 7 transmissions, so that's one area to look at if going hydrostatic drive configuration.  The 8 speed gear drive transmissions have proven to withstand the passing of time.

[ebinmaine 70,699]

7 hours ago, Blasterdad said:

 

This IS the correct amswer, with the exceptions of the Pond lever steer, Work Horse, & @JoeM's C-141, the best most reliable  is RED. 

 

  

 

And my  1974 C160-8 Cinnamon Horse. 

 

 

And of course Trina's 1966 856/866 Military Tribute Tractor "Millie".

 

 

 

[midpack 970]

This is the favorite I have right now 

 Most of the other ones I have are reconfigured C-175's (engines) and a stock 312-8 so I don't have a lot of variety to choose from but seat time on any of them is a joy! 😉

[ebinmaine 70,699]

5 minutes ago, midpack said:

seat time on any of them is a joy! 😉

 

 

That's what counts!!

 

 

5 minutes ago, midpack said:

I don't have a lot of variety to choose from

 

You want variety? 

Stop by here  -  anytime  -  you can play on our Herd.  

I'll even "let you" move rocks 🪨  or firewood. 

 

[FLtractor 25]

Very cool to hear all the different perspectives. 

[midpack 970]

21 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

 

You want variety? 

Stop by here  -  anytime  -  you can play on our Herd.  

I'll even "let you" move rocks 🪨  or firewood. 

 

Don't you have a loader too? Bet that's fun!

[ebinmaine 70,699]

8 minutes ago, midpack said:

Don't you have a loader too? Bet that's fun!

 

 

Absolutely. 

Loader with Backhoe!!

 

Here's the thread: 

 

 

 

 

@FLtractor.  Take a read through that. 

Awesome machine! 

[JCM 10,017]

Cream of the crop. 417-8  &   312-8.   @midpack    @FLtractor   Kohler powered. Both bullet proof.

[953 nut 57,861]

11 hours ago, FLtractor said:

simple less to go wrong wheelhorses, compared to more modern technology, parts and electronics. For example, those with starter generators points condensers. Vs more modern systems. Is there a particular timeframe of wheelhorses or models that stand out as more reliable

In my case it would depend on who is going to be operating it. If my wife is getting on one the 418-C is the best choice because there is no clutch, push the stick forward and you go forward, pull it back and you back up, tap the brakes and it stops and the eighteen horse Magnum has enough power that it won't stall.

 

From a reliability standpoint my "Barn-find 953" is the hands down winner. The day I drug it home it wouldn't run, had no spark. I checked the ignition coil and found it wasn't good so I put a good used coil on it. It started and ran well even with the nasty smelling old gas that was in the tank. Over the three decades I have owned the 953 I have changed the oil several times, replaced both belts once or twice, given it a tune-up once, and a nice new sparkplug or battery a few times. It has never failed me and is as dependable as the time on "Big Ben".

 

The 310-8, 1055, GT-14, A-60  and other 953s are also quite reliable. Just a matter of proper maintenance because they were all built to last a lifetime. All of mine have Kohler engines, couple have Magnums, one has the breaker-less ignition system, and most have battery ignition systems. About a 50/50 split on Starter/Generator vs. ring-gear/Bendix starters. I like the quiet S/G starting over the noisy later model starters but they all work well.

[squonk 42,516]

I'm with @Racinbob. I like the early accessibility of the rockshaft on the pre 1980 models. Plus the stouter sheet metal and better paint quality. When the horses are left out in the weather the older units are rusty. The newer ones are usually rotted

[953 nut 57,861]

9 minutes ago, squonk said:

When the horses are left out in the weather the older units are rusty.  Have more character.

Fixed it for ya', case in point.

Photo credit to JIM, @WHX??

Edited April 12 by 953 nut

[pfrederi 18,324]

The less wiring the better...look at at the electrical forum  The more wires the more times a model shows up....520s I am talking about you !!!

[JCM 10,017]

18 minutes ago, pfrederi said:

The less wiring the better...look at at the electrical forum  The more wires the more times a model shows up....520s I am talking about you !!!

Main reason for that is the owners leaving a 520 outside uncovered and not keeping the tractor clean with compressed air and actually washing it . I open the hood after cool down and cover from the front of the engine to the dashboard then close the hood to keep ALL water out. Then compressed air to dry it. Towel dry everything as well. Bought one of my from the original owner in 2002 and 23 years later ZERO electrical issues. The most comfortable and smooth riding tractor out of all of them and the gear reduction steering is as good as power steering. 

[FLtractor 25]

4 hours ago, T-Mo said:

There are some bad design flaws in all brands, Wheel Horse included.  I.e., plastic hoods and fenders, and the tow lever on the C1X1 series hydrostatic models were hard to almost impossible to get access to.  And if you have a lot of property to maintain, you will want to get access to that lever eventually.  The primary drive belt systems on the Wheel Horses wasn't the most efficient design, robbed a lot of hp getting to the deck.  The angle frame design wasn't as heavy duty as with some competitors.  As with all brands, there's good and the bad.

 

The mid to late 80s Wheel Horses, in my opinion (take or leave it) were the best to where a lot of design flaws were ironed out or removed.  And as mention, the Kohler Magnums were great engines.  The Kohler K series and the Command series were also good engines.  If maintain properly, the Onans were okay as well.  The Eaton 11 transmissions were stronger than the Eaton 7 transmissions, so that's one area to look at if going hydrostatic drive configuration.  The 8 speed gear drive transmissions have proven to withstand the passing of time.

You mentioned 8 speeds and hyrdrostatic standing test of time. In comparison how would my 8 hp kohler 3 speed 1966 unidrive manual non pto hitch and implement lift (not sure of actual name) in regards to simple less to break and standing test of time? Asking since this is the new to me only Wheelhorse I’ve ever owned and don’t see how it could get less mechanical or electrical simple. Any gremlins or known issues fail points on those? 

[ebinmaine 70,699]

1 hour ago, FLtractor said:

You mentioned 8 speeds and hyrdrostatic standing test of time. In comparison how would my 8 hp kohler 3 speed 1966 unidrive manual non pto hitch and implement lift (not sure of actual name) in regards to simple less to break and standing test of time? Asking since this is the new to me only Wheelhorse I’ve ever owned and don’t see how it could get less mechanical or electrical simple. Any gremlins or known issues fail points on those? 

 

 

There are 4 main types of Wheelhorse manual transmission. 

3 and 4 speeds are two. 

6 and 8 speeds are the other two. 

 

All are quite rugged. 

A couple have different capabilities. See 6 and 8 speed listings below.  

 

 

3 and 6 speeds are made up to 1969. 

4 and 8 speeds from 1970 up. 

 

The difference between the two families is the location of the brake shaft. 

 

3 speeds, 4 speeds, and a few light duty 8 speeds use a 4 pinion differential. 

6 speeds and a few early 8 speeds use a 10 pinion Limited Slip Differential. 

8 speeds from 1973 up use an 8 pinion open differential. 

 

8 pinion 8 speeds are known to be the most rugged. 

 

 

Your own 3 speed is very capable.