Is Buying Old Neglected Charger 12 Worth It?

[tntatro 181]

Hello, I'm considering buying a project Wheel Horse with a hydrostatic transmission. I see a Charger 12 that appears to have been left in the weather for a while and is only a couple hundred bucks (and I'll offer less). I'm curious if it would cost too much to rebuild the hydro transmission or if they are sometimes just ruined when neglected, damaged or worn out. I've bought worse condition Wheel Horses with manual transmissions and have successfully rebuilt all the engines (except Tecumseh's) and transmissions and got them functioning. I just don't know anything about the hydrostatics. I've rebuilt a Tuff Torq K46 before off a Husqvarna but have never owned or rebuilt a Wheel Horse Hydrostatic. Is it likely that I'd be able to replace damaged parts or are some parts too hard to find? I have no idea what I might run into if I buy it and tear it down or how much the cost might be. The tractor is all rusty but not pitted and dented up. Looks like it could make a good keeper since all my others are manual transmission.

Thanks, Tim

[oliver2-44 10,201]

If it runs, chain it to a tree and see it will spin the tires in forward and reverse. 
The good thing about hydrostatic transmissions is they don’t have a shifter where water can get on the transmission.  The differential, drive gear and brake shaft are rebuildable with needle bearings just like a manual transmission.  I’ll let others comment on the hydro pump and motor on that one, which is different than the Sundstrands on the C series. 

Edited Sunday at 03:56 AM by oliver2-44

[mrc 866]

daveoman is a member here.  he has excellent tutorials on what to look for inside the sunstrand hydro trannies and how to fix

Edited Sunday at 04:19 AM by mrc

[tntatro 181]

11 minutes ago, oliver2-44 said:

If it runs, chain it to a tree and see it will spin the tires in forward and reverse. 
The good thing about hydrostatic transmissions is they don’t have a shifter where water can get on the transmission.  The differential, drive gear and brake shaft are rebuildable with needle bearings just like a manual transmission.  I’ll let others comment on the hydro pump and motor on that one, which is different than the Sundstrands on the C series. 

It doesn't run so I imagine it needs a lot of work. I have a K241 that I could swap out if the engine is too worn out. I don't have a lot of money to throw at it but I want a project to work on. I have some good used bearings from previous rebuilds on manual transmissions and some new oil seals I kept for spares. If I can sell some stuff I'll probably do a full rebuild if I buy it. It's been listed for a week so someone good get it before me but I'll keep looking for something because I'd like to try out a hydrostatic Wheel Horse. I don't want to buy anything until I have some idea of what I might be getting into. It would probably make sense to buy a working tractor and I may consider that if I sell some stuff I don't need.

[tntatro 181]

1 minute ago, mrc said:

daveoman is a member here.  he has excellent tutorials on what to look for inside the sunstrand hydro trannies and how to fix

I've looked at one of the repair manuals but haven't studied it. I don't know the availability of parts and how much it might cost to fix it. I can handle maybe a few hundred on it but much more than that I might have to pass for now. I have three Wheel Horses now. A B80 for mowing, a Raider 12 with filled tires, wheel weights and chains for plowing and the other was a bad purchase project 656 that cost me more to fix than I can sell it for. If I like using a hydrostatic then I may eventually replace the plowing tractor with a hydrostatic. I mostly like to work on stuff and have to justify it in my brain somehow. I don't really need another.

[kpinnc 13,407]

4 minutes ago, tntatro said:

project 656 that cost me more to fix than I can sell it for.

 

Same for every tractor I have! 

[tntatro 181]

6 minutes ago, kpinnc said:

 

Same for every tractor I have! 

Yup, the 656 wasn't the only one for me but for some reason I keep doing it. I just hope the people who get them appreciate them because I always make sure the engines are within the wear limits and the transmissions are good and everything works. If I knew how to paint them I think they might sell for more. I think it might be easier to sell one that looks nice that smokes and pops out of gear than one that's all rusty with a rebuilt engine and transmission.

[daveoman1966 3,787]

That would be the Sundstrand Hydrogear model 90-2046 in the Charger 12.  These are NOT difficult to rebuild and I'd thinkk---after 50+ years--- an overhaul would be in order.  There are gasket and O-ring kits available here on RS.  This is my manual for overhaul...  it applies to model 90-2024 and 90-2062 as well as earlier model 3100077.  SUNDSTRAND HYDROGEAR refurb.pdf

[kpinnc 13,407]

Just now, tntatro said:

for some reason I keep doing it.

 

None of my tractors will ever make a profit. Not for me at least. Maybe my wife and kids will get some free money for them. 

 

But the restoration (or just getting them servicable) is part of the enjoyment for me. Almost every tractor I have was a non-running rust bucket when I got them. 

 

 

[tntatro 181]

13 minutes ago, daveoman1966 said:

That would be the Sundstrand Hydrogear model 90-2046 in the Charger 12.  These are NOT difficult to rebuild and I'd thinkk---after 50+ years--- an overhaul would be in order.  There are gasket and O-ring kits available here on RS.  This is my manual for overhaul...  it applies to model 90-2024 and 90-2062 as well as earlier model 3100077.  SUNDSTRAND HYDROGEAR refurb.pdf

I just read through the manual. It looks pretty straight forward, thanks. Are parts available if there is any damage beyond rebuilding? I saw a listing for a Wheel Horse that had a problem with the dump valve. Is something like that easy enough to find parts for and fix? It seems like a bit of a gamble to buy a non running tractor. Just wondering how bad it could potentially be or if they are generally rebuildable without much problems.

[WHX?? 50,333]

5 hours ago, tntatro said:

It seems like a bit of a gamble to buy a non running tractor.

That's why my limit is generally 100 on a non runner. 

 

5 hours ago, tntatro said:

easy enough to find parts for and fix?

Too bad you wern't closer I have 3 hydros for that tractor. Would damn near give them away. 

[Ed Kennell 40,136]

7 hours ago, oliver2-44 said:

If it runs, chain it to a tree and see it will spin the tires in forward and reverse.

It is easy to do this test on a non runner.   Park a runner behind the chained tractor and drive the test hydro with the runners PTO and a long belt.    I've done it many times to non runners.

[oliver2-44 10,201]

8 hours ago, tntatro said:

 I saw a listing for a Wheel Horse that had a problem with the dump valve. Is something like that easy enough to find parts for and fix? 

By "dump valve" I'm guessing you mean the implement raise lower valve.  These can be rebuilt with Viton O-rings you get from your local industrial hydraulic shop.  When you go look at it GET IT look closely at the valve shaft at the handle, where it comes of the housing. In rare cases the shaft in this area is rusted pitted.  But usually its just oil dirty.  Just don't mess with the hydraulic relieve valve setting nut that is under the acorn nut.

 

 

[tntatro 181]

1 hour ago, oliver2-44 said:

By "dump valve" I'm guessing you mean the implement raise lower valve

I don't know what the seller in the listing meant but for some reason I thought the dump valve was to push or tow the tractor. I think that's what they always called it at a small engine repair shop I worked at several years ago on the newer lawn mowers that have a wire sticking out the back. Looking at a manual I see it's referred to the relief valve. Maybe it's also called the tow valve. This Wheel Horse I'm thinking of buying doesn't have any description. The seller just says they don't know much about it. If they don't know much about it and want to move it then I'm wondering if they could cause damage if they dragged it around without opening the valve. It's probably perfectly rebuildable but I just have no idea what to expect with an old neglected hydrostatic Wheel Horse. It's been in the weather by the looks of it.

[tntatro 181]

4 hours ago, Ed Kennell said:

Park a runner behind the chained tractor

The one I'm looking at is an hour drive and my trailer is only about 4-1/2 feet wide and 7 feet long and will only fit one Wheel Horse. I'm expecting that it needs to be rebuilt but if I get it and it works then that would be a nice surprise.

[Ed Kennell 40,136]

2 minutes ago, tntatro said:

1 hour ago, oliver2-44 said:

 

I don't know what the seller in the listing meant but for some reason I thought the dump valve was to push or tow the tractor.

 

3 minutes ago, tntatro said:

I'm wondering if they could cause damage if they dragged it around without opening the valve.

I'm also thinking they are referring to the tow bypass valve.    Unlike the Eaton hydros, I don't think there is any risk of damage to the Sundstrand hydros

[tntatro 181]

4 hours ago, WHX?? said:

I have 3 hydros for that tractor

I sometimes see them listed on marketplace not too far but not very often. Most I see are whole tractors and I can't buy a parts tractor because I'll end up wanting to fix it instead of using it for parts.

[pfrederi 18,267]

If the hydro was in reasonable shape the wheels would just be dragged. You can't push any of my Sunstrands more than a few inches

[tntatro 181]

3 minutes ago, pfrederi said:

If the hydro was in reasonable shape the wheels would just be dragged. You can't push any of my Sunstrands more than a few inches

That's good to know, they sound like strong transmissions.

[stevasaurus 23,012]

One thing about the tow valve...you only need to open it like a half a turn to push it.  

[daveoman1966 3,787]

This is the tow valve.  Use a crescent wrench and take it completely out and clean it up. Smear a bit of Vaseline on it before reinstalling.   

[tntatro 181]

I tried contacting the seller and he didn't respond then it was marked as sold the next day. I guess I need to look for another.

[WHX?? 50,333]

8 hours ago, tntatro said:

marked as sold the next day.

 

8 hours ago, tntatro said:

guess I need to look for another