Voltage Regulator Questions

[702854boy 49]

What are some signs of the voltage regulator on a k161 going bad?

[pfrederi 18,314]

Low voltage while engine is running at speed.  Should be 13.5 +/-.  Manny times it is a bad ground or a worn out battery that is tee problem not the regulator itself

 

 

Edit:  Is this engine a starter generator or a bendix starter

Edited March 16 by pfrederi

[ri702bill 8,945]

4 minutes ago, pfrederi said:

Is this engine a starter generator or a bendix starter

 

Two completely different charging systems.....

[702854boy 49]

10 minutes ago, pfrederi said:

Low voltage while engine is running at speed.  Should be 13.5 +/-.  Manny times it is a bad ground or a worn out battery that is tee problem not the regulator itself

I had a multi meter hooked up to it earlier and it was pretty much staying around 11.46 volts, but occasionally it would drop or go higher, and we just put new brushes and springs and bearings in the s/g and blew out all the dust, all of the wiring is brand new as we rewired it last year, the last time we were having problems, I cleaned up the 3 grounds. And when we had replaced the stuff in the s/g, it was showing around 12.61 volts constantly. And the battery os pretty much brand new as we just replaced it a month or two ago.

Edited March 16 by 702854boy

[pfrederi 18,314]

Get her running at near full speed with your multimeter hooked up use a jumper to ground the F terminal on the genny.  Engine should labor a bit and voltage go well above 14.  If it does regulator is bad if it stays 12-13.  genny still has issues.  (Incidentally a fully charged batter should read 12.6 v )

 

[SylvanLakeWH 27,438]

Even though new battery, I'd check it as well... 

[702854boy 49]

32 minutes ago, pfrederi said:

Get her running at near full speed with your multimeter hooked up use a jumper to ground the F terminal on the genny.  Engine should labor a bit and voltage go well above 14.  If it does regulator is bad if it stays 12-13.  genny still has issues.  (Incidentally a fully charged batter should read 12.6 v )

 

So what would it do if everything is as it should be

Edited March 16 by 702854boy

[ri702bill 8,945]

Look over these ancient Delco-Remy files. The output voltage IS adjustable - early models had a screw, later ones the screw is gone - you have to gently bend the spring tab... a little goes a long way....

DELCO-REMY_SERVICE_BULLETIN.pdf

Delco Remy IMG-150 Service Bulletin.pdf Delco Remy Regulator Manual 1R-116.pdf delco_remy_regulator_service 1R-111.pdf Delco-Remy SG Repair.pdf DELCO-REMY_SERVICE_BULLETIN.pdf

[Handy Don 13,339]

6 minutes ago, 702854boy said:

So what would it do if everything is as it should be

 

“Normal” operation (all components, including battery, wiring and connections functioning properly) should see the engine turned briskly to start. Immediately after start and with throttle set to at least one half (~2200 rpm) the amp meter should show current flowing into the battery and the voltage across the battery at 13-14.5. Over the next few minutes, the amp meter should start to flicker near zero and the voltage goes down to ~13-13.5. 

 

The test @pfrederi suggested will isolate the problem assuming you have a good battery. Note that a battery can easily show 12.5+ volts on a multi-meter at rest and still not be in good shape--only a legitimate test (at any good service station or parts store) can correctly assess a battery. 

S/G regulators can fall out of adjustment without failing completely. Do the stuff mentioned and then let us know the results and we’ll take it from there. 

[702854boy 49]

Do you need to have an ammeter to help with this test or will I be fine with the volt meter

[Handy Don 13,339]

Doesn’t the tractor have an ammeter on it?

An ammeter isn’t strictly necessary--later WHs replaced it with a voltmeter, anyway. I tend to like having extra instrumentation to see the details and an ammeter provides more specific (and useful) information. 😁

If you can borrow one, you are looking for something that’ll register the range of -20 to +20 amps at 50 volts. It gets wired in series between the S/G “G” terminal and the “B" terminal on the ignition switch. (Note: many modern ammeter testers use a clamp-around method to measure the current flow in a wire. Since this is DC, that’ll work fine as long as the meter is on the correct wire and has the needed range setting.)

It is easy to chase your tail and start parts swapping with electrical issues by not going step by step in a logical order.

Edited March 16 by Handy Don

[702854boy 49]

The tractor did have an ammeter on it until last May, when we rewired we put in a volt meter in it's place. We do still have the ammeter and I could probably figure out a way to rig it on if that will make the test easier

[Blasterdad 3,025]

1 hour ago, 702854boy said:

The tractor did have an ammeter on it until last May, when we rewired we put in a volt meter in it's place.

 

2 hours ago, Handy Don said:

It gets wired in series between the S/G “G” terminal and the “B" terminal on the ignition switch.

I think you found your problem, a voltmeter is not designed to have voltage flow "through" it. Put the ammeter back as @Handy Don described & let us know...

[702854boy 49]

When we rewired it, we took the wires from the ammeter, removed them and ran a wire from the middle terminal on the voltage regulator to the battery, and it was working fine until January and then when we went through the starter, it was working without problems until yesterday.

Edited March 16 by 702854boy

[pfrederi 18,314]

The readings yo showed  after you rebuilt t

7 hours ago, 702854boy said:

I had a multi meter hooked up to it earlier and it was pretty much staying around 11.46 volts, but occasionally it would drop or go higher, and we just put new brushes and springs and bearings in the s/g and blew out all the dust, all of the wiring is brand new as we rewired it last year, the last time we were having problems, I cleaned up the 3 grounds. And when we had replaced the stuff in the s/g, it was showing around 12.61 volts constantly. And the battery os pretty much brand new as we just replaced it a month or two ago.

Those readings  are not normal;12.61

[adsm08 2,609]

1 minute ago, pfrederi said:

The readings yo showed  after you rebuilt t

Those readings  are not normal;12.61

 

I agree. It sounds like it is charging weakly and the battery is discharging slowly.

 

Was the system polarized properly after the S/G rebuild? If not the regulator is likely fried (ask me how I know).

 

Remove the two screws and the black cover from the regulator and look at the left rear corner as viewed from the seat.

 

If you fried it the circled wire will be burnt off, just like it is in this picture:

 

 

That's actually what happened to this regulator. I had the S/G rebuilt and forgot to polarize it before hitting the key.

 

If that is what's wrong it is repairable. Select a piece of wire of about the same gauge, solder to the arm, wrap around the screw, adjust as necessary.

 

[702854boy 49]

I do not think it was polarized, I did not know it had to be polarized, all we did was take it apart, use compressed air to clean up all of the dust, replaced the bearings and brushes and springs and called it good.

[702854boy 49]

I will have to go out later and look if that wire is broken

[adsm08 2,609]

43 minutes ago, 702854boy said:

I do not think it was polarized, I did not know it had to be polarized, all we did was take it apart, use compressed air to clean up all of the dust, replaced the bearings and brushes and springs and called it good.

 

 

It's a good idea to polarize any time the S/G unit is disassembled.

[702854boy 49]

Just now, adsm08 said:

 

 

It's a good idea to polarize any time the S/G unit is disassembled.

How would that be done

[702854boy 49]

@adsm08 I cant tell if anything is fried or not and mine looks a little bit different than yours does.

[adsm08 2,609]

7 hours ago, ri702bill said:

Look over these ancient Delco-Remy files. The output voltage IS adjustable - early models had a screw, later ones the screw is gone - you have to gently bend the spring tab... a little goes a long way....

DELCO-REMY_SERVICE_BULLETIN.pdf 59.03 MB · 2 downloads

Delco Remy IMG-150 Service Bulletin.pdf 722.78 kB · 0 downloads Delco Remy Regulator Manual 1R-116.pdf 1.76 MB · 0 downloads delco_remy_regulator_service 1R-111.pdf 1.06 MB · 0 downloads Delco-Remy SG Repair.pdf 826.86 kB · 0 downloads DELCO-REMY_SERVICE_BULLETIN.pdf 59.03 MB · 0 downloads

 

15 minutes ago, 702854boy said:

How would that be done

 

The PDFs that @ri702billlinked to. Manual 1R-116, page 4.

[adsm08 2,609]

1 minute ago, 702854boy said:

 

This picture, the trace in question is next to the cardboard tube. Runs from the button on the base plate to the button on the bottom of the arm right above it.

[702854boy 49]

23 minutes ago, adsm08 said:

Runs from the button on the base plate to the button on the bottom of the arm right above it.

Is this what your talking about

[pfrederi 18,314]

With a S/G you polarize it every time you try to start it.  Polarization is only important for a generator.