K-181 Starter

[Racinbob 11,507]

Earlier today I posted the starter replacement on my K-181. It was a quick unbolt/bolt back on thing and that was that. I posted in the What Have You Done.....topic but with it starting at post #23011 I figured I'll start fresh here. @ebinmaineand @Ed Kennell responded to it. Well, in my usual fashion it wasn't quite that easy. I posted before I tested it. I went back out to take a spin (pun intended) but the starter isn't engaging. It needs to be closer to the flywheel. With no shims to play with I see two ways to do this. One is tapered shims to tip it down some effectively moving it closer. The bracket design will allow this. The other way might be to shim the other end of the starter to angle it in some. I don't think the amount needed would be a problem. I've replaced quite a few starters over the years and never had this issue. I've always replaced them with the same shims, if any, that were on the old starter and it's been good to go.

What would you guys do?

 

[Blasterdad 2,800]

My vote would be option one, sounds easiest/fastest without changing the angle of the starter. 

[ri702bill 8,769]

Hmmm. As I recall, there are 2 different drive gears used - the tooth count is not the same. Check it against your old one??

[Racinbob 11,507]

14 minutes ago, ri702bill said:

Hmmm. As I recall, there are 2 different drive gears used - the tooth count is not the same. Check it against your old one??

I think you're right but I did verify the diameter and tooth count.

 

[Racinbob 11,507]

38 minutes ago, Blasterdad said:

My vote would be option one, sounds easiest/fastest without changing the angle of the starter. 

I'm leaning that way too but I  don't think the angle would be enough to matter.

[ebinmaine 69,813]

1 hour ago, Blasterdad said:

My vote would be option one, sounds easiest/fastest without changing the angle of the starter. 

 

Likely I'd lean that way too

[Racinbob 11,507]

10 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

 

Likely I'd lean that way too

I am too and it's got two votes here. I just don't know if I can get enough that way. I didn't have time to really get into it this morning other than to see the problem. Tomorrow morning it is. Proof once again that I can make a simple 30 minute project take two days. 

[ebinmaine 69,813]

7 minutes ago, Racinbob said:

I am too and it's got two votes here. I just don't know if I can get enough that way. I didn't have time to really get into it this morning other than to see the problem. Tomorrow morning it is. Proof once again that I can make a simple 30 minute project take two days. 

 

 

Yyyeeeaaahhh

 

Me too.....

[Ed Kennell 39,805]

I would probably use my precision redneck milling machine (4.5" angle grinder) to mill a taper on the starter mounting flange.   Looks like it would require 1/32 to move the gear 1/8.

[squonk 41,964]

Angle grinder on the block!!! 

 

Just kidding! 

[RED-Z06 2,415]

I buy dirt cheap feeler gauge sets to cut up for starter shims, angle grinder a notch through the pack, notch slides over the bolt on the side you want to shim.

[953 nut 56,815]

18 hours ago, Racinbob said:

I  don't think the angle would be enough to matter.

Unless the starter came with tapered shims I think option 2 sounds like would get the job done and is simple to do.       

[RED-Z06 2,415]

20 hours ago, Racinbob said:

I'm leaning that way too but I  don't think the angle would be enough to matter.

The mounts blew out on my p218 in 2022 because previous owner put on a Chinese starter.  I had the block welded and drilled, oem starter was catching the tip of the ring gear, it wouldn't go around a full turn.  I shimmed the outer mount slightly with feeler gauges and achieved this mesh

Edited yesterday at 02:09 PM by RED-Z06

[Racinbob 11,507]

I tried to go the shim route but just couldn't get the alignment to my liking. I gave up on that and did the spacer thing on the pto side bolt. A 3/8" washer was a fuzz too much. Tried a stainless washer and it wasn't quite enough. Thinned down the regular washer and got it right. The angle isn't noticeable at all and the teeth are parallel. Starts great. Now to find a rebuild kit so I'll have a spare on the shelf. 

Thanks for the advice guys! 

[ebinmaine 69,813]

48 minutes ago, Racinbob said:

Now to find a rebuild kit

 

 

I've never found the correct rebuild kit without disassembling what you have, first.

[oliver2-44 10,094]

FYI, DB Electric has some starter rebuild kits that I’ve used. 

Edited 19 hours ago by oliver2-44

[ebinmaine 69,813]

6 hours ago, oliver2-44 said:

FYI, DB Electric has some starter rebuild kits that I’ve used. 

 

Are you able to order ahead or do you have to open the starter to see what's in there?

[Racinbob 11,507]

I opened it up this morning. Just a good cleaning, new brushes and bushings and it should be as good as new.

 

 

I found kits on Ebay. Some have a new brush holder which I won't need. Most don't include bushings which I'd say I definitely need. I'll take a look at DB Electric later today. 

[ebinmaine 69,813]

Bushings versus bearings is the issue I had when trying to order parts. Also seen some kits with bushings that were the wrong size.

[Racinbob 11,507]

2 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

Bushings versus bearings is the issue I had when trying to order parts. Also seen some kits with bushings that were the wrong size.

 

The bushings did look wrong in the kits I saw that had them. I figured it was just a stock photo. 

[oliver2-44 10,094]

The DB kits I bought has the correct rear and middle bushing.  There was not a bushing for the starter gear on the couple of starters I did,  which was ok as my gear did not have a bushing. On most of them the middle bearing was worn a lot and the rear bearing was worn just a little. 
 

FYI. The Kohler manual shows how to make an easy small sheet metal jig to hold the brushes for reassembly.  Its works great. 

[Ed Kennell 39,805]

21 minutes ago, oliver2-44 said:

 

FYI. The Kohler manual shows how to make an easy small sheet metal jig to hold the brushes for reassembly.  Its works great. 

Seems I have to make a new one every time I install brushes.    Almost impossible w/o one.