Weight box or suitcase weights?

[HyperPete 440]

Weights are an attachment right? 

 

My 1-0440 has a weight box I just removed to sand & paint, but I also have 4 JD suitcase weights.  I can't imagine that it would be too hard to fab amount for these, so my question is, which would be "better"? 

No, I don't have a definition for "better".

I also have beet juice filled rear ag tires and wheel weights. 

 

[WHX?? 50,562]

Hey Pete

 Which type it purely what you prefer. Weight is weight no matter what type. I like suit cases as one can take them off  to get at things for maintenance or if not needed. Or move them to another tractor. 

I like a box too ... you can keep chains, tools, hitches and other possibilities in it as well as weights. Always seems out on the ranch working those lifting chains are back at the warehouse! 

Best of both worlds I have a box and put suit cases in it. and other heavy chunks of steel. Plain old simple chunks of heavy rocks work good in a box for filler. 

 

The ags with juice are a huge plus inside and outside weights. 

This FEL i now have a 2" automotive type receiver out the back for a ball or draw bar

Edited February 11 by WHX??

[HyperPete 440]

Nice setup!  I may have to try to emulate that.

[WHX?? 50,562]

Thanks ... I don't like my box ... not big enough. Should be more like yours but just something I had laying around. 

[1mor Project 90]

I also have a 2-inch receiver on one of my "C"s and have considered building a weight box or something else to hold more weight. I have wondered if the extra weight on the rear axle bearings would eventually become a wear problem. Has anyone had a problem with that?

[ebinmaine 70,395]

5 hours ago, 1mor Project said:

I also have a 2-inch receiver on one of my "C"s and have considered building a weight box or something else to hold more weight. I have wondered if the extra weight on the rear axle bearings would eventually become a wear problem. Has anyone had a problem with that?

 

 

There are conditions and sacrifices with every move we make. 

IMHO the outer wheel bearings could/ should have been a little more robust. But we have what we have.  

 

I'd say run the weight you need to be safe and have an extra fully rebuilt transmission in the works.  

 

 

[ri702bill 8,925]

6 hours ago, WHX?? said:

plus inside and outside weights.

The "best" choice to add weight - does not affect the axle bearings - just like running filled tires.....

My C81 has filled tires, chains with extra cross links - weigh about 75 pounds each. A 75 pound cast iron outer weight with a 20 pounder inside it - another 95 pounds each.

Total added weight is over 340 pounds - all in or on the tires.....

 

[ebinmaine 70,395]

@1mor Project.  @ri702bill   makes a great point. 

 

Do all you can to get more weight inside the tires, along with inside and outside the wheel FIRST. 

 

 

[WHX?? 50,562]

3 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

outer wheel bearings could/ should have been a little more robust.

but guys are carrying a lot more weight than what I am and they don't seem to be worried so I'm not gonna either.

@Ed Kennell has got a stack of gym weights on that gotta be a ton. 

 

Tapered bearings would have been nice but it is what it is.

 

Keep the tranny oil fresh & clean & hubs tight I guess. 

[SylvanLakeWH 27,249]

Here's my free weight box... 225 lbs on a 2" hitch, trash picked weight machine weights, Harbor freight winch plate, former  milk crate...

 

 

[SylvanLakeWH 27,249]

3 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

 

Do all you can to get more weight inside the tires, along with inside and outside the wheel FIRST. 

 

 

And then, find an appropriate place to park it...

 

 

[ebinmaine 70,395]

30 minutes ago, SylvanLakeWH said:

And then, find an appropriate place to park it...

 

 

 

 

 THAT WAS NOT ONE OF THOSE

[ebinmaine 70,395]

1 hour ago, WHX?? said:

but guys are carrying a lot more weight than what I am and they don't seem to be worried so I'm not gonna either.

@Ed Kennell has got a stack of gym weights on that gotta be a ton. 

 

Tapered bearings would have been nice but it is what it is.

 

Keep the tranny oil fresh & clean & hubs tight I guess. 

 

 

I've been wondering for several years if there was such a thing as a super heavy duty B1816 bearing or, using a wider one would be better, or a different brand is better than another one. Smaller rollers versus larger rollers. Things like that.

[pfrederi 18,289]

Since The original; question involved a FEL I have to say i do not think you can avoid using some sort of weight box.  There is no way you can come up with sufficient weight in filled tires, inner and outer wheel weights.  My D200 has big filled tires, outside weights and a counter weight of two large Cement block filled with cement.  She could use more counter weight as she can get a bit tippy when i pick up something really heavy. 

 

 

[Ed Kennell 40,306]

1 hour ago, WHX?? said:

ll has got a stack of gym weights on that gotta be a ton.     Naw....only 200 lbs.

[pfrederi 18,289]

5 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

 

 

I've been wondering for several years if there was such a thing as a super heavy duty B1816 bearing or, using a wider one would be better, or a different brand is better than another one. Smaller rollers versus larger rollers. Things like that.

 

 

Interesting thoughts  I have come across two styles of needle bearings in WHs  I assume the full complement (left) are better but The spaced ones were used by WH at some points.  I use the full complement ones when i replace them.

 

 

 

 

[WHX?? 50,562]

9 minutes ago, pfrederi said:

I have come across two styles of needle bearings in WHs 

Interesting ...  Wonder what the difference in ratings are on the two. 

[ri702bill 8,925]

McMaster listing may tell you.....

[ebinmaine 70,395]

20 minutes ago, pfrederi said:

I use the full complement ones

 

I use those on my bigger heavier C Series tractors. On Trina's smaller lighter machines I don't get concerned either way.

 

 

10 minutes ago, WHX?? said:

Interesting ...  Wonder what the difference in ratings are on the two. 

 

 

1 minute ago, ri702bill said:

McMaster listing may tell you.....

 

 

I feel a research project coming on

[Ed Kennell 40,306]

1 hour ago, ebinmaine said:

 

I feel a research project coming on

I think we did this a few years back.      I sorta remember due to the slow speed and low loads, the bearing life wasn't affected by increasing the load from 500 to 700 lbs.

 

Maybe @Handy Don will do the math.

[Handy Don 13,267]

2 hours ago, pfrederi said:

She could use more counter weight as she can get a bit tippy when i pick up something really heavy. 

Something to keep in mind is the geometry. The front tire patch is the fulcrum. The load in an FEL which has a long reach forward of the front axle (e.g. lifting on forks in front of the bucket) will have more leverage to lift the tractor. Likewise the farther aft the counterweight, the more effective it is. A narrow front wheel track also limits stability during high lifts.

 

Moving the fulcrum to help in both directions was, I’m sure, on the engineers' minds when they introduced the swept axle to move the front tires forward and outward. At the tipping point, the fulcrum is supporting the full weight of the tractor plus the load in the FEL bucket. Going to the heavier axle, front bearings, and front tires helped with the heavier loads.

 

7 minutes ago, Ed Kennell said:

Maybe @Handy Don will do the math.

Hmmm. Not my usual territory, but a worthy research project!

[ebinmaine 70,395]

31 minutes ago, Ed Kennell said:

I think we did this a few years back.      I sorta remember due to the slow speed and low loads, the bearing life wasn't affected by increasing the load from 500 to 700 lbs.

 

I do remember it coming up at some point or maybe I read about it in an older post.

 

I do wonder if that number was doubled to 1,000 though....

 

Primary example would be our Wally Digger Backhoe. 

Another reason I'm interested is because of the occasionally heavy loads I put on while dragging would up out of the forest.

[Handy Don 13,267]

I dug through some articles on calculating allowed static and dynamic radial loads on bearings (the later being the supported load while the bearing is rotating within its specified speed range). The limits are where the force causes either the needle or the cup to incur inelastic deformation. Conceptually very neat, but the formula for static is very complex and the industry standard for calculating dynamic is to simply apply a “load factor” to the static. Then I realized these numbers are probably readily available in the catalogs for off-the-shelf bearings like the B1816. And they are.

 

Below are two clips from Koyo Bearing’s engineering document. WH transaxle outer bearings use drawn cup style, either caged or full complement. The chart mentions the comparative difference in radial load for the two types (Moderate and High, respectively). BTW, axial loading is along the direction of the axle--WHs don’t put any. 

 

Elsewhere I found the B1816 specs (drawn cup, full complement) for static and dynamic load and converted them to pounds. Static: 18,142 lbs. Dynamic: 7.846 lbs. Remember that in most tractor situations, there will be two bearings, one for each axle, sharing the load equally.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ebinmaine 70,395]

25 minutes ago, Handy Don said:

Elsewhere I found the B1816 specs (drawn cup, full complement) for static and dynamic load and converted them to pounds. Static: 18,142 lbs. Dynamic: 7.846 lbs. Remember that in most tractor situations, there will be two bearings, one for each axle, sharing the load equally

 

I know these Transmissions are over built but those numbers are far higher than I thought they were

[SylvanLakeWH 27,249]

 

Makes my head hurt... 

 

My ...

 

Weakest link in any system breaks first... in the ~8 years Ive been a member here I can recall very few if any posts regarding wheel bearings failing, other than due to rust / lack of lubrication... maybe (probably ) I'm missing something, but we aren't flying rockets in space. 30-50 year old machines are still doing what they were designed to do... seems adequate to me...

 

Edited February 11 by SylvanLakeWH