Skidding logs with a 312-8

[Alrashid2 355]

Thanks all. I guess I wasn't sure after you @ebinmaine had said to buy a cheaper shackle hitch mount. So are those, even when cheap, rated much higher than we'd need?

[ebinmaine 69,414]

16 minutes ago, Alrashid2 said:

Thanks all. I guess I wasn't sure after you @ebinmaine had said to buy a cheaper shackle hitch mount. So are those, even when cheap, rated much higher than we'd need?

 

Lemme look up some specs so I can get an accurate answer. It's important to remember the EXTREME difference in pull capabilities between an inexpensive shackle with a 1/2" or 5/8" pin versus an inexpensive chain with say like a 3/16" or 1/4" wire diameter. 

 

[ebinmaine 69,414]

41 minutes ago, Alrashid2 said:

Thanks all. I guess I wasn't sure after you @ebinmaine had said to buy a cheaper shackle hitch mount. So are those, even when cheap, rated much higher than we'd need?

 

 

Here's some information that will be helpful for you to understand the difference between Grade 30 and grade 70.

 

 

"The working load limit of a chain is significantly less than the weight that would cause a chain to fail (the tensile strength of a chain)."

 

 

 

 

 

Let's consider the lightest duty one just for kicks... 1/4"..

 

Grade 70 has nearly THREE TIMES the load limit of grade 30. 

 

 

As far as buying new versus used, I wouldn't buy new. But it's important to remember I know how to inspect a used chain. I also know where all my chains came from and they had been professionally inspected not long before I got them.

 

If the inspections to ensure good product weren't available to me, I would absolutely buy new.

[bassJAM 86]

I'm just gonna drop this right here....

 

[RED-Z06 2,368]

If you're dead set on running chain, id at least use a damper over the chain on the non-working end, if it does break maybe it will slow it down some.

 

 

[Alrashid2 355]

Thanks guys! I did end up going up a grade to Grade 43 5/16 chain. Will post photos later of the rig and hopefully post a video in a week or two when I actually give skidding a shot!

 

@RED-Z06 that is a great idea, we used to throw a blanket over our straps when off roading just in case. Totally forgot about that.

[bassJAM 86]

7 minutes ago, RED-Z06 said:

If you're dead set on running chain, id at least use a damper over the chain on the non-working end, if it does break maybe it will slow it down some.

 

 

 

A wheel horse isn't going to break the chain OP's is going with.  There's just not enough traction available.

[Alrashid2 355]

Got my setup today! Decided to go test it out with the 312-8 on the few logs I currently have. She was able to pull a 20" Oak log, 4 feet long, with ease! However, she could not pull a 30" Oak log that was 8 feet long haha... I tried bracketing so I know now my ability to pull is somewhere between those two sizes.

 

The Maple getting dropped this week is 17" diameter and I requested it be cut in 5 foot sections... it's also Maple not Oak, so somewhat lighter. Will try for a video this weekend!

[Handy Don 12,957]

On 1/31/2025 at 10:39 AM, bassJAM said:

 

A wheel horse isn't going to break the chain OP's is going with.  There's just not enough traction available.

On a steady pull. Jerking is a different story. 

[Pullstart 63,357]

15 hours ago, Handy Don said:

On a steady pull. Jerking is a different story. 

I can’t prove it, but I can’t agree.  These tractors should not be able to ever break an appropriate sized chain.  There’s not enough mass in the momentum to break that tensile strength.

[peter lena 8,957]

@Handy Don @OutdoorEnvy   love the  hood /  tank  slide point  ! thats how you do it  ! another thing  I do is to watch how your tow is REACTING    to  initial drag ,  if there is a curve in the drag , initially  it could plow it self  into  ground , move your  drag point around  so its working easier ,  rarely a one and done.. have a number of  14 k  12 foot straps , that show me  where they want to be . also a heavy  screw in  eye bolt  can be  driven into  best  pull spot .  just me , pete

[davem1111 2,071]

On 1/31/2025 at 10:28 AM, RED-Z06 said:

If you're dead set on running chain, id at least use a damper over the chain on the non-working end, if it does break maybe it will slow it down some.

 

 

 

On 1/31/2025 at 10:29 AM, Alrashid2 said:

[...]

@RED-Z06 that is a great idea, we used to throw a blanket over our straps when off roading just in case. Totally forgot about that.

 

This reminded me of a story. About 30 years ago, my Ex wife and I had bought a small farm with a run-down bungalow of a house (not far from where @Alrashid2 lives). We at first thought we'd expand and renovate the house but after analysis, it made more sense to demolish and put up a modular.  I proceeded to remove siding and windows from the house, then one day had some friends over for a demolition "party".  We used a chainsaw to cut through some strategic spots in the top and bottom plates, etc.  Then my one friend wanted to try to pull it down with his Ford Explorer. All we had was chains. He had a chain going from his hitch to the top corner of the house, and started pulling, but it wouldn't budge. Being the stubborn type, he started backing up and going forward faster to jerk on it. I told him to stop, but he refused.  Then came that magic moment when he jerked it hard enough to pick the Explorer's rear wheels off the ground, then the chain broke at the house end.... the entire length of about 30' feet of chain hit his tailgate at lightning speed, broke the window and left some very interesting chain link impressions in his tailgate. 

 

Thankfully, no one got hurt (but my friend's pride...). He had a good time explaining that to his wife - she got pretty pissed off and wanted me to pay for the damage,  which I refused since I had told him to stop and it was his choice to keep trying. I'm not sure how much blanket dampers would have helped but they certainly would have helped some. I've been much more careful pulling anything with chains or straps since then. 

 

Looking forward to some videos, Al. 

[Alrashid2 355]

@davem1111 Ha what a story! The things guys do when they get together, ha! 

 

Don't worry, I'm being extra cautious here! Not planning on doing any jerking, just pullling... not risking breaking this nice Horse that is finally running smoothly! Videos to come

[bassJAM 86]

17 hours ago, Handy Don said:

On a steady pull. Jerking is a different story. 

 

Totally disagree unless you add a literal ton of fixed mass to the wheel horse, manage to hit the full speed the GT is capable of before the slack is taken up out of the chain, the log is large enough that it doesn't budge a fraction of an inch, and the chain doesn't slip.

 

OP is using a grade 43 chain with a working load of 3,900 lbs.  Normally the working load is about 1/3-1/4 of the tensile strength, meaning the chain shouldn't break until 11,700 lbs of force are applied.  As always, check your chains for wear and tear.

[ebinmaine 69,414]

Not to get too far into the minutia of this but I'm genuinely curious. Does anyone know how to figure out the actual load on the chain given a 600 lb tractor and a full total stop from say 6 mph?

Edited Tuesday at 04:37 PM by ebinmaine
Finished question...

[Ed Kennell 39,586]

23 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

Not to get too far into the minutia of this but I'm genuinely curious. Does anyone know how to figure out the actual load on the chain given a 600 lb tractor and a full total stop from say 6 mph?

Are you taking guess Eric?    Put me down for    653.75 pounds.      After all the estimates are in, I'll send the problem to my Grandson at Lehigh U.   He's working on his Phd in Physics.

[ebinmaine 69,414]

3 minutes ago, Ed Kennell said:

Are you taking guess Eric?    Put me down for    653.75 pounds.      After all the estimates are in, I'll send the problem to my Grandson at Lehigh U.   He's working on his Phd in Physics.

 

Get him on the horn Ed. 

 

I'd figure the number a fair amount higher. 

[Alrashid2 355]

Not to throw a wrench into things but I calculated my total tractor weight is about 935 lbs

 

• 550 lb tractor
• 100 lbs of wheel weights
• Plow/frame around 120 lbs
• I the driver weigh 165 lbs

 

 

[ebinmaine 69,414]

1 minute ago, Alrashid2 said:

Not to throw a wrench into things but I calculated my total tractor weight is about 935 lbs

 

• 550 lb tractor
• 100 lbs of wheel weights
• Plow/frame around 120 lbs
• I the driver weigh 165 lbs

 

 

 

That's reasonable. 

 

My C160 Automatic is built and loaded heavier than most. It tips the scales closer to 1400 lbs. 

[RED-Z06 2,368]

Ive casually torn 2000lb straps with a tractor well under 2000lb.

 

But you'll need to figure out the tractive force first before you can figure out "pulling power". To do that you multiply the coefficient of friction by the mass times acceleration due to gravity.

 

Hell I pulled a Farmall C with full front and rear weights, cultivators, loaded tires...down the road in 2nd gear with a little WH 702...it was only what...550lbs with operator pulling 3500lbs?

[Horsin'round 141]

F=m×a

 =600lb×-6mph

F=272.155kg×-2.68m/s=~-730N

 

It's a lot of force,  good reason to secure well with good equipment. 

[SylvanLakeWH 26,396]

This is an easy one...

 

Get 2, no 3 more 's for your herd, hook them all up on separate chains, assess if you have room for even more 's, add as needed or to taste, hook them up separately too... have a "haul day" and invite everyone to drive your haul tractors... no problem...

 

 

@ebinmaine is good for at least a dozen C-160's... bet he's got rated chain too... 

[Handy Don 12,957]

1 hour ago, Horsin'round said:

F=m×a

 =600lb×-6mph

F=272.155kg×-2.68m/s=~-730N

 

It's a lot of force,  good reason to secure well with good equipment. 

Per @Alrashid2’s estimate, it’s ~1,000 lbs all up. That settles the mass part.

It’s the A that’s the challenge--acceleration (or deceleration in this case) in meters per second per second from 6mph to 0. I’ll be generous and make it stop in ½ second. It’s actually quicker and that “instantaneousness” is what makes the “jerk” force (pun intended) so much higher.

I won’t bore you with the calc, but the answer is ~2,430 N or almost 11,000 lb force. Weak link? Insecure connection?

 

Edited Tuesday at 07:03 PM by Handy Don

[Ed Kennell 39,586]

So, some where between 600 and 11,000 lbs.       I'm a Lab test guy so next time I have the 520H out I'll chain it to a 24" red oak and give it a jerk. The 520 with cab and dually is probably well over 1000 lbs.  I have a 3/8" chain I used to jerk out twelve 70 yo spruce stumps with my 5,000 lb F-150.     BTW, I use pieces of old fire hose on the chain to protect the trees and the tail gate.  When felling trees, I often use a 3/8" cable ****** blocked to the base of a tree so the pulling truck is in a safe location.

 

The 3/8" chain should break at 6600 lbs.

 

[ebinmaine 69,414]

16 minutes ago, Ed Kennell said:

The 3/8" chain should break at 6600 lbs

 

 

If that's a Grade 70 chain it will have a WLL / Working Load Limit of 6,600 lb.

 

The margin of safety is usually four times. I've seen three. That means your change should be able to withstand something more in the neighborhood of nearly 20,000 lb pull before it snaps.