Do people actually pay the substantially high prices for WHs?

[RED-Z06 2,326]

I see these dreamers on marketplace and in groups, craigslist putting up clean 300/400/500 tractors for 5000, 10,000, 12,000 dollars, not always low hours unused machines either, and usually no valuable implements to make them more useful.  

 

My take on it is, WH is already a niche market vs JD, Cub, Case, Sears...for one they changed hands a few times, and have been gone for what, 18 years now?  So right off the bat you have a small buyer group, then you have the issue of usefulness.  WH tractors mowed really well, they can handle a tiller if you can find one. But except a few models only clevis hitch attachments,  no 3pt.  There were not, on most models, remote hydraulics, or multiple spool valves, so things like loaders, needed an external pump and valving.  So they aren't widely considered an option when people look for tractors for that kind of work.

 

There are dedicated collections, yes, but are 300/400/500 series really "collectibles" when they were manufactured in such large numbers?  Like even a clean 500 series, with no implements besides a deck, worth $5000?  with over 500 hours on it?

 

Im all for making money, but are those numbers reasonable?

 

You dont even see mint low production "Patio" Deeres bringing that money, and those guys are militant over them 🤣.

 

 

[Ed Kennell 39,388]

Just saw a average mule drive listed for $150.   I sell those for $25.           It's tough for us old guys to stay in tune with inflation when our income is fixed.

[Handy Don 12,784]

I regularly scan CL for lawn & garden tractors in my area so I do notice listings that stay for weeks (or, for the eager, get reposted every few days). The market does work and from what I’ve seen, over-priced items do not move.

What drives a lot of it, I think, are two types: the flipper and the out-of-touch owner.

The flipper is hoping for a quick sale to an uninformed buyer.

The out of touch owner paid $000s, is unfamiliar with the market, and thinks they should get 50% of their purchase price back.

Frankly, I think those sellers rarely get what they are asking and often will discount heavily in the end.

 

I’ve had neighbors ask what my nicely refurbished 854 with all its attachments and upgrades is worth and be shocked when I tell them it’s hundreds, not thousands of dollars.

[RED-Z06 2,326]

1 minute ago, Ed Kennell said:

Just saw a average mule drive listed for $150.   I sell those for $25.           It's tough for us old guys to stay in tune with inflation when our income is fixed.

So you're seeing about the same level of dreaming I am on stuff.  

 

I saw a typical 36" tiller, needed tines, no side mule, no belt, no mounts, not rusted but definitely not clean..for $1400, I buy them around 200-250, or a bit more with the mount and mule.

[RED-Z06 2,326]

2 minutes ago, Handy Don said:

I regularly scan CL for lawn & garden tractors in my area so I do notice listings that stay for weeks (or, for the eager, get reposted every few days). The market does work and from what I’ve seen, over-priced items do not move.

What drives a lot of it, I think, are two types: the flipper and the out-of-touch owner.

The flipper is hoping for a quick sale to an uninformed buyer.

The out of touch owner paid $000s, is unfamiliar with the market, and thinks they should get 50% of their purchase price back.

Frankly, I think those sellers rarely get what they are asking and often will discount heavily in the end.

 

I’ve had neighbors ask what my nicely refurbished 854 with all its attachments and upgrades is worth and be shocked when I tell them it’s hundreds, not thousands of dollars.

Yes, exactly.  My 702 is very nice, custom sears 3pt with disc, rebuilt K181 with all the starter/gen stuff...my neighbor down the road asked me why i was using it to disc my garden, because surely it must be a rare valuable tractor, i said man id be lucky to get $900 if i wanted to sell it 🤣.  My C100 with the electric lift, very nice survivor tractor..paid $300.  

[OutdoorEnvy 1,663]

I don't see prices like that in Oklahoma,  I only check FB though so not sure what groups around me are asking.  Prices are reasonable for the most part.  Runners seem to be around $400-600 on the low end and more around $1,000 on the high end.  Most of the time just a mower deck but every now and then some more interesting attachments are with it.  

 

I do see some crazy prices for non-runners though.  Where people think these are almost worth their weight in copper or something.  They will be priced around $1,000 for something covered in rust and looks like it's been in it's spot for decades slowly rotting away. 

Edited Friday at 04:37 PM by OutdoorEnvy

[Bar Nuthin 842]

41 minutes ago, Handy Don said:

What drives a lot of it, I think, are two types: the flipper and the out-of-touch owner.

 

Well said. I think there is another influence - the out-of-touch buyer, or first-time buyer.

 

Being a recent member of the out-of-touch buyer group, I really was clueless as to what to look for - I just knew I wanted an older wheel horse capable (statistically) of performing a few functions - maneuvering a trailer and plowing snow.

After watching marketplace for several weeks I settled on a C-120 automatic for $400. It came with a mower deck (cobbled) ,plow-blade, wheel weights, and tire chains. I didn't have the knowledge or experience to know that it had seen such a hard life and was running on a wing and a prayer.

 

Undaunted, I proceeded to correct issues as I find them - but that all comes with a cost and a learning curve.

 

In hindsight, I would probably would have been better off to spent more money upfront for a machine in better condition. But then I wouldn't have been in the "out-of-touch buyer, or first-time buyer." group, would I?

 

Regardless, it's been a fulfilling journey so far.

Edited Friday at 04:42 PM by Bar Nuthin

[Handy Don 12,784]

3 minutes ago, Bar Nuthin said:

Being a recent member of the out-of-touch buyer group, I really was clueless as to what to look for

I think every member has a story of lacking important knowledge and overpaying for something--I sure do!

[RED-Z06 2,326]

2 minutes ago, Handy Don said:

I think every member has a story of lacking important knowledge and overpaying for something--I sure do!

Paid 2000 for a Deere 420 that the seller had a few red flags, tractor too, engine cratered 45 minutes after i owned it.

 

 

Another point is, Rarity and Value dont always go hand in hand.  A running Yugo is rare, but they aren't valuable.  A tractor may be very uncommon, but if theres only 2 people looking for one..you probably dont have alot of potential for value.

Edited Friday at 04:51 PM by RED-Z06

[Bar Nuthin 842]

1 minute ago, Handy Don said:

I think every member has a story of lacking important knowledge and overpaying for something--I sure do!

 

Maybe that's why people turn into collectors - not being able to recoup the money they've sunk into making a tractor right. 

[johnnymag3 2,548]

Or you can just go spend 5000 for a stamped steel mower at Home Depot.......then throw it away in 3 years. 

Wheel Horse Tractors of the early years through to the 90's  are worth whatever a buyer will pay. Also they will be around in 3 years....      After all, they are already 20-50 years old already.  

 

That being said, why not pay for something that will last your lifetime............instead of a throw away clunker

[Handy Don 12,784]

6 minutes ago, johnnymag3 said:

That being said, why not pay for something that will last your lifetime

This would be the opposite of an uninformed buyer, right?

[RED-Z06 2,326]

6 minutes ago, johnnymag3 said:

Or you can just go spend 5000 for a stamped steel mower at Home Depot.......then throw it away in 3 years. 

Wheel Horse Tractors of the early years through to the 90's  are worth whatever a buyer will pay. Also they will be around in 3 years....      After all, they are already 20-50 years old already.  

 

That being said, why not pay for something that will last your lifetime............instead of a throw away clunker

I feel like you've missed the point.  Im not saying to buy something newer, im saying..why are 1500-1800 dollar tractors being listed for 5000-12000 dollars.

[squonk 41,721]

Some folks watch too many of those "collector shows "  and think they have gold mines. Happens with everything. Cars ,Tractors , Model Trains you name it

 

The ones that crack me up are the tractors for sale that they haven't even bothered to get it off the trailer. They post pics of it still strapped down. Or the ones with crap piled all around and on top of it. There was a pair of well worn horses for sale for $300 near me last fall. Had a set of weights and a nice 3 piece seat. I messaged immediately but someone else was on their way.  The next day I see the same pics but now the guy who bought them is selling them. Ad says "weights not included" He's so lazy he didn't even take his own pics!  Now he wants $300 for EACH tractor. Ad was up for weeks and the price kept going lower and lower.

[squonk 41,721]

Depends on your area. But with the price of the Tin Plated MTD"S that Lowes and HD sell I feel any WH in running condition with a functioning deck is worth at least $695 all day long and I have sold quite a few of them. Some have looked WELL USED. But no one has come back and complained. 

[RED-Z06 2,326]

18 minutes ago, squonk said:

Depends on your area. But with the price of the Tin Plated MTD"S that Lowes and HD sell I feel any WH in running condition with a functioning deck is worth at least $695 all day long and I have sold quite a few of them. Some have looked WELL USED. But no one has come back and complained. 

I think a running WH is 500-600 yeah; clean 1200-1500, very clean garage kept 1800-2200 with a rear lift hitch and low hours.  Showroom fresh...2500ish but thats a "survivor" level mower.

 

If for example a museum wanted a NOS mower, I can see them paying 3000 for one.

 

I passed on a showroom condition Cub 2072 last year for $2000, thats shaft driven, 60" deck, big twin kohler..it sat for at least 4 months before it disappeared at $1500.  Thats alot of tractor for $1500

[johnnymag3 2,548]

47 minutes ago, Handy Don said:

This would be the opposite of an uninformed buyer, right?

80 percent of all consumers....yes

[johnnymag3 2,548]

47 minutes ago, RED-Z06 said:

I feel like you've missed the point.  Im not saying to buy something newer, im saying..why are 1500-1800 dollar tractors being listed for 5000-12000 dollars.

I do understand your point.......   is a 1300 dollar 1957 Chevrolet worth 80,000  ???   I say yes.....     Its all very relative.      I know of the Tractors you are referring to and the Seller can sell them for whatever the market will bear.  I have seen it happen.

 

I wasn't saying to go purchase a NEW mower, I was refering to the VALUE of a lifetime Tractor vs a 3 year Tin lizzie  

[Brockport Bill 1,752]

this is interesting topic thread!

 

it's almost a daily happening on Facebook on one of the WH group threads that someone posts asking "whats this tractor worth" or "what $ should i sell it for" - Frankly, I find the question somewhat entertaining --- and love reading the answers since there are dozens of variables -- but of course almost no one providing their opinion has any idea its condition, or the part of the usa, or if it fell off a cliff - or if it even has a running engine - or is just a rust bucket or fully restored? Most Rsq members know there are dozens of variables and the correct answer to the question is --- "it depends" !!!!!!!!!!! How value is established for any commodity from a stock, to a house, to a coin, or a used power tool, or a WH tractor, is simply............. its worth what someone is willing to pay!! 

[Achto 28,013]

I usually by junk, throw a lot of cash at it to make it pretty & right again. Then I try to figure out where I'm going to store it. Never really tried or wanted to sell any of them.

[RED-Z06 2,326]

I was just thinking, another point is intent.  Are we just collecting and occasionally letting one go we no longer enjoy, or is it a business for profit?

 

Ive sold a few WHs in 30 years, mostly ones that were excellent parts machines but had more value as parts machines than running...in the sense its more sensible to sell a parts mower for $200 than to get it going and fight to try and get $300, you're selling to a differen group of buyers.  But alot of these "dreamer price" collectors seem to sell an awful lot of tractors, probably getting them from inside sources cheap and then flipping them waiting big profit, isn't that more of a business structure than a collection or hobby?

[johnnymag3 2,548]

2 minutes ago, RED-Z06 said:

Are we just collecting and occasionally letting one go we no longer enjoy, or is it a business for profit?

I can tell you one thing from experience............

  Keep the day job because you are NOT going to survive on wheeling and dealing WH Tractors...   they don't have that sort of return.....But they always bring you your investment back....and alot of fun.

 

I have been at it for 50 years.... Wheel Horse ONLY.....  I make a little ....spend it on more stuff.....Make a few more bucks....spend it on a few more items for inventory. ... buy a few more Machines....sell a few more  Its a cycle. its all for the fun and reward.  I will never sell my Eddie murphy 418-A I bought from him.....it will never be worth more than any 418-A that is clean with low hours..its the point of owning it and the story  

 Huge profit cannot be made with this low dollar hobby. Its really just a LOVE for Wheel Horse and Wheel Horse only !!!   PROFIT  is not going to happen.      My .02 cents  !!!   

[Handy Don 12,784]

2 minutes ago, RED-Z06 said:

more of a business structure than a collection or hobby?

I was just thinking the same thing.

There is fellow who advertises WH parts on CL from Malverne PA and comes to the Show every year. I’ve been to his shop and we’ve chatted at length. For him, it is one of several lines of business that keep him afloat, e.g. he’ll repair almost any vehicle or tractor but only parts out WHs. His prices are generally just high enough to give an informed buyer second thoughts but to him it’s clearly a business--he isn’t the least bit sentimental about the machines!

His main source for stock is leads and referrals and auctions where he picks up non-runners for free or cheap and he has the space to keep what he takes in as well as his inventory. He is in tune with the market and prices accordingly--he knows what stuff is less common and worth more (weights, swept axles and reduction steering, 16 hp Kohlers, tillers, FELs) and what’s readily available and worth less (most hoods, frames, 3-speeds, 10 and 12 hp Kohlers, long frame dozer plows, most mower decks). He’ll occasionally sell a “complete”, restorable tractor or, very rarely, a runner.

[RED-Z06 2,326]

45 minutes ago, johnnymag3 said:

I can tell you one thing from experience............

  Keep the day job because you are NOT going to survive on wheeling and dealing WH Tractors...   they don't have that sort of return.....But they always bring you your investment back....and alot of fun.

 

I have been at it for 50 years.... Wheel Horse ONLY.....  I make a little ....spend it on more stuff.....Make a few more bucks....spend it on a few more items for inventory. ... buy a few more Machines....sell a few more  Its a cycle. its all for the fun and reward.  I will never sell my Eddie murphy 418-A I bought from him.....it will never be worth more than any 418-A that is clean with low hours..its the point of owning it and the story  

 Huge profit cannot be made with this low dollar hobby. Its really just a LOVE for Wheel Horse and Wheel Horse only !!!   PROFIT  is not going to happen.      My .02 cents  !!!   

I agree, WHs generally will be a break even at best, unless you just ask some ridiculous number and wait for a sucker.

 

I sell alot of Zmowers, ill buy one, clean, for 600ish, put about $500 into it, sell it for 2800-3300, im licensed and pay my state taxes so its a business for me, ill take in a few clean modern riders a year, flip them for 300-400 profit.  

 

But if i listed a mower that normally sells at 3000, for 9000+, id expect to catch criticism for missing the market.

[SylvanLakeWH 26,250]

I have redone 2 non-runners, one rat one "nice", had a blast doing it and riding them, then sold them for a slight loss... worth every penny. Never expected to make money...

 

Have also purchased 3 pretty rare 's... weren't cheap due to their relative scarcity... batteries etc... again sold two at slight loss but loved learning about them and using them... very cool!

 

Profit? Never expected or anticipated it...

 

Just a great hobby and a great way to get kids working on and using tools and machines...