Commando 800 re-power

[njdpo 9]

hi all, 

 

Im working on a Commando 800 re-power and thought I would start a new thread.

 

Ive got a few questions that perhaps some of you might be able to offer some advice on. 

i have removed part # 14-64 as seen on this web page ( https://www.jackssmallengines.com/jacks-parts-lookup/manufacturer/toro/riding-products/1972/1-0110-commando-800-4-speed-tractor-1972/p-t-o-clutch ) 

 

while trying to move it from the k181 to the M8 I notice the machining isn't the same between the two motors, and that part 14-64 (Rod & Plate Assy)  fits nicely on the k181 (as the k181 machining is on a "single flat plane")... but moving it to the M8 quickly reveals a couple of issues. First the machining of the M8 does not have a nice "flat plane" like the K181 did, instead it is "stepped by .200 thousands of an inch. Looks like Im going to need to shim up that area of the block (by .200 thousanths) in order to get the bracket to sit securely (and squarely) on the block. The second issue is that the M8 is not tapped for the set screw that was installed on the K181 (thats not a problem). 

 

Bother I go finding / making a .200 shim - does anybody have any other ideas ?  

your thoughts and feedback appreciated.

Thanks Dave.

 

the pic of the filthy K181 block below shows that the machined surface is a "flat single plane", so the bracket fits squarely on the block. 

'

 

note the ledge on the newer M8 block - "stepped by .200 thousands of an inch

 

 

 

 

RELATED LINKS

 

[953 nut 56,976]

Gotta do what you gotta do to make it fit,  make the shim.   

[njdpo 9]

I’m working on getting that part 14-64 (Rod & Plate Assy) moved over to the M8 ...

the set screw is not the same size on the two engines - the M8 has a set screw 1/16 smaller than the k181
 ... and this complicates things a bit as the clearance/fit in the slot seen in the 14-64 part is now sloppy.

the fix was using a properly sized bolt (same length as the set screw on the k181, BUT - grind the head of the bolt to a nice round cylinder and size it for a nice fit in the slot on the 14-64 (Rod & Plate Assy).
this was done by chucking the threads of the bolt into an electric drill and spinning the bolt head up against my bench grinder. (if i had a lathe I would have used that).
 

I’ll head over to the hardware store and see if I can find a fat washer that will give me the .200 shim I need to mount the plate safely against the engine. 
will post a few pics once I get the shim ready for installation.
 

- Dave
 

[njdpo 9]

and now for another Question

i want to move the muffler from the k181 to the M8 and cant get it off. 

 

Its relatively new - and Its got a lot of life left in it.

but shes stuck on the exhaust pipe real good ...

does anyone have and ideas on how to get that muffler off ? 

 

I was thinking that maybe I could heat the threaded area of the muffler that is in contact with the exhaust pipe. 

Ive heard of someone say get the muffler hot and apply candle wax to the threads, the wax would possibly make it easier to get off ???

 

Any ideas and help tips for removing that muffler are greatly appreciated.

see attached pics .

 

- Dave

 

Edited January 28 by njdpo

[njdpo 9]

and now for another question  

 

REGARDING - crankshaft lengths 

 

the crankshaft length on the:

 - K181 is 3 1/4 long

 - M8    is 2 3/4 long (roughly 1/2 inch shorter) 

 

am I facing any issues with the difference in crank length ??

(should have measured that up first i suppose).

 

- Dave

[njdpo 9]

hi all - Anybody have any thoughts on the crankshaft length question (above) for me ?

- Dave

[oliver2-44 10,136]

If the end of the M8 crankshaft is threaded you could have a short shaft extension machined and bolt it on. 
 

I’m guessing you plant to put a WH mechanical PTO on it. If you stick with the short crankshaft 1/2” of the PTO bearing race will be unsupported.  Thankfully that a long race and bearing. Thinking out loud, WH uses the same PTO on 16hp and even 20hp tractors. So your 8hp engine isn’t going to load that PTO down very hard. Just don’t run a PTO implement with a super tight belt that would create extra side load. Just my 

[njdpo 9]

On 2/5/2025 at 11:39 PM, oliver2-44 said:

If the end of the M8 crankshaft is threaded you could have a short shaft extension machined and bolt it on. 
 

I’m guessing you plant to put a WH mechanical PTO on it. If you stick with the short crankshaft 1/2” of the PTO bearing race will be unsupported.  Thankfully that a long race and bearing. Thinking out loud, WH uses the same PTO on 16hp and even 20hp tractors. So your 8hp engine isn’t going to load that PTO down very hard. Just don’t run a PTO implement with a super tight belt that would create extra side load. Just my 

 

OK so I took a liking to the advice from oliver2-44, and had my machinist buddy cut up a stainless extension for the crank

im going to tap the crank (which is predrilled at .390) with a 7/16-20 (fine thread bolt).

a few pics attached - for your entertainment. 

 

Oh also - if anyone has any advice on the removal of that stuck muffler - that would be great !

Initially I just wanted the muffler - as I already have a pipe on the M8 - but maybe I should put a pipe wrench on it and just use the whole thing? 

Anybody have any thoughts on that direction - probably save the muffler from being damaged ?? 

 

Pic #1 - parts ... 

 

Pic 2 - the dry fit. 

 

pic # 3 - extension slightly recessed below end of bearing surface. 

Thanks again - Dave

[oliver2-44 10,136]

3 hours ago, njdpo said:

Oh also - if anyone has any advice on the removal of that stuck muffler - that would be great !

Initially I just wanted the muffler - as I already have a pipe on the M8 - but maybe I should put a pipe wrench on it and just use the whole thing? 

Anybody have any thoughts on that direction - probably save the muffler from being damaged ?? 

The pipe is probable stuck in both engines., just like the muffler is stuck on the pipe.

You might tryit, but be careful and don't break the block trying to get the pipe out.

 

Does the pipe on the M8 have good usable threads on the muffler end of it?

 All options have risk.

 

If it were me (and I'm not always successful)  I would cut the pipe off about 3/4" - 1" muffler. 

Then I would take a scroll saw with a metal blade and slit the inside of the pipe 3-4 places. 

Carefully so you don't cut down into the muffler threads.

Now,  collapse the pipe into the muffler.  This usually take trying with a large vice grip, or a vice.

Don't crush it all the way, jus enough to break the threads free.

I usually find I get 1 area to collapse/free a little , then go back and cut a slit next to the collapsed area. Then work on collapsing it more until it will unscrew or pull out.

This takes patients and a little luck doesn't hurt! 

 

[wallfish 17,245]

19 hours ago, njdpo said:

Anybody have any thoughts on that direction - probably save the muffler from being damaged ?? 

Don't worry about it and ditch that pepper pot spark arrester thing. They sound terrible and it's loud anyway. Go with a real muffler.

Low tone rumble and it won't give you a headache

Something like

https://www.amazon.com/Clamp-Muffler-Gravely-Replaces-18543/dp/B0080X2Y0I

 

Or this

https://www.amazon.com/Muffler-Compatible-Tractors-393840-R91-Replacement/dp/B0DYP26XK9/ref=sr_1_11?adgrpid=1346904222974367&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.1snSXznkcoERqDZm2XLHjLN9oUeIurmY9l0ioID_taxKXL1iBsYNooq7cmYyQ5PxQhR4vzEc1OtRAFPYq6lphYgNI03xQl-rxA0SnbnKjM49Bwn6otv3QIFH3p4YN43Ps2iTX2lxddIqLuigNXX11vaqSuufIQrI5LLueZiQtwhIzz79XtChjCB_E4hchPUVlwgnEINVB8K-yOJlrA-NbrPuN47Z9Kqp4IRuUeUnxoA.HLVhuxN0NEHgeAdCz5YMtvfodlrRgMzBItUMMpc0pGw&dib_tag=se&hvadid=84181789032618&hvbmt=bp&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=51385&hvnetw=o&hvqmt=p&hvtargid=kwd-84182640594122%3Aloc-190&hydadcr=11266_13305230&keywords=105-296&mcid=3aabc06d8559301da8279c057f78dbde&msclkid=fd2888d0fa7c12ef5be4ef186da77684&qid=1741199444&sr=8-11

[njdpo 9]

@oliver2-44 - thanks for that...

I was also thinking that a pipe wrench could do more harm than good ( and my luck never works out like that ).

Spring is nearly hear,  and I need to wrap this up.  

 

@Wallfish - WOW !

I really like those options ... 

• The gravely unit has an inner diameter of 1 inch 5/16 -or- 1.3125)
• The longer black unit has an inlet diameter of 1 inch 3/8 -or- 1.375) 

My exhaust pipe on the M8 is 1.325 (slightly less than 1inch 5/16 at 1.3125)

so the smaller Gravely unit appears to be a good snug fit - all I would need is the muffler clamp (i might get that at a local auto parts store or maybe amazon ) ... 

I like that it has a 90 degree bend in it so i could perhaps point it forward - or upward ? with a flapper valve maybe ? ? ? 

 

( even if that longer unit did come in the correct size - fabricating a support bracket is going to slow my roll to the finish line ... ) 

 

Thanks Guys ! 

[wallfish 17,245]

55 minutes ago, njdpo said:

My exhaust pipe on the M8 is 1.325 (slightly less than 1inch 5/16 at 1.3125)

so the smaller Gravely unit appears to be a good snug fit - all I would need is the muffler clamp (i might get that at a local auto parts store or maybe amazon ) ... 

I like that it has a 90 degree bend in it so i could perhaps point it forward - or upward ? with a flapper valve maybe ? ? ? 

 

( even if that longer unit did come in the correct size - fabricating a support bracket is going to slow my roll to the finish line ... ) 

Both fit nice and snug with a clamp onto the 1" black pipe. I have quite a few of those Stens mufflers on stuff and when clamped, there's no need for any bracing. I cut that little bracket on them off in most cases.

I mostly point them facing down on the tractors.

 

If the engine runs, run it until the exhaust is hot and those pipes come out much easier.

[njdpo 9]

Hi Wallfish,

 

Im hoping to do the motor swap this weekend, ill break out the tape measure and see where that 17 inch "black" muffler stops in relation to everything else (mechanical PTO maybe a problem  ?)  ... 

I tend to use this small commando 800 (and its tight turning radius)  for pulling a trailer in heavily wooded areas (fire wood collections)  - where many years of leaves and dried brush are on the ground.

 

So while I like the idea of pointing the muffler downwards - I need to be mindful of potential fires due to sparks (something that has happened to me once before).

Caught it early before the fire dept had to get involved... 

 

Thx Dave