HY-2 Problems. Again

[adsm08 2,320]

At least I'm not trying to rebuild the stupid thing this time.

 

First off, does anyone have a source, or a number, for just the shaft seal? I know Lowell had them listed alone a few weeks ago, but now I don't see them. I have trouble installing them and usually screw up one or two to each one I install successfully, so I'd like to buy a few.

 

Second, I blew a line tonight while plowing. Short of having the local hydraulics shop make me a set ($$$$) does anyone have a source for these? I'm pretty sure I'm going to have to make a temporary repair to get through the next storm coming this weekend, but I'd like something better than a flare and a hose clamp long term.

[WHX?? 49,647]

31 minutes ago, adsm08 said:

Lowell had them listed

Might want to call him see if he is getting any. I think its a 5/8 x 3/4 or 1/2 x 5/8?? in any case it it's a common size a auto store may have. Last one i did i think I put two seals in it. See what he might be able to say about that. They are a bugger to put in like tranny input seals & might even be the same size as them. I usually get more than I need and hammer the first one flat just to get it out of the way. 

Lowell has the hoses but if you have a farm & barn close they might have them too. Yes HY shops can be quite proud of them. If you have the original hoses with the metal tube ends you'll have to add some 3/8 street ells on the pump for generic hoses. Lowell sells them with the 90.

https://wheelhorsepartsandmore.com/product/4853-4854-replacement-hydraulic-hoses-for-hy-2-hy-3/

 

I see he has the seal kits yet. 

https://wheelhorsepartsandmore.com/product/wheel-horse-hy-2-hy-3-953-1054-pump-seal-kit/

Edited January 7 by WHX??

[Lane Ranger 11,057]

The original soft seal that goes in from the outside was a little thicker or had a thicker casing.   The replacement oil seals are narrower.   I use to sell them several years ago.   Lowell at wheelhorsepartsandmore.com. sells them now.   But the thing to know is the shaft often has worn to the point that one of the new type seals won't stop leaks!

 

 

I have recommended two of the new type seals if you have a leaker with one.

 

There is just enough room to place two seals.  

 

 

[WHX?? 49,647]

1 minute ago, Lane Ranger said:

There is just enough room to place two seals.

That's what I thought  ... Thanks Lane. 

[Mike'sHorseBarn 3,044]

My HY 2 leaks like a sieve even with 2 seals in it. I wonder if anyone could drill out the hole and bush it to bring it back to spec? Lowell sells the hoses too, but my local hydraulic shop made some from me and I didn't think they were expensive.

[WHX?? 49,647]

1 hour ago, Mike'sHorseBarn said:

HY 2 leaks like a sieve even with 2 seals in it.

I had one like that too Mike. It leaked bad around the spool too. It sat for years with water in in.  I gave it to Lowell and he rebuilt it. No idea how he did it. I think he told me one seal goes in backwards to avoid the shaft wear. 

 

1 hour ago, Mike'sHorseBarn said:

didn't think they were expensive.

You got a good shop then. I took some to a shop before I knew he had them. Shop wanted 100 a hose ... 

I was going to be a original hero tho and keep the metal tube part of the hose. Got them from Fleet Farm about 20 a piece. 

 

These might have been Lowell's CRS...

Edited January 7 by WHX??

[Lane Ranger 11,057]

1 hour ago, Mike'sHorseBarn said:

My HY 2 leaks like a sieve even with 2 seals in it. I wonder if anyone could drill out the hole and bush it to bring it back to spec? Lowell sells the hoses too, but my local hydraulic shop made some from me and I didn't think they were expensive.

 

 

One of the fixes is a new geared shaft.   They use to be made by the International Cub guys and sold as an after market part .  I have not seen them on for a while but that part in a new original spec is a good corrective option.

 

 

[WHX?? 49,647]

4 minutes ago, Lane Ranger said:

One of the fixes is a new geared shaft.

You lost me ther Lane. Pic?? 

 

One thing I do remember is the connection under the dash is a bugger to tighten. best doing it before the pump is mounted. 

[Lane Ranger 11,057]

This geared shaft is the shaft the pulley for the belt runs on outside the casing.   The shaft wears and this one does show some wear .  A new gear reduces the wear gap on the shaft which one or two seals won’t seal.  
 

It would be a great assistance to have some machinist make some of these and sell through Lowell at wheelhorsepartsandmore.com 

 

 

[Lane Ranger 11,057]

See the wear on the shaft!  

[Mike'sHorseBarn 3,044]

I think I'll ask lowell and see what he thinks. Maybe I can send mine to him for a refresh. I've had it apart enough times lol

 

I need to order some other things from him anyway.

[Mike'sHorseBarn 3,044]

Just now, Lane Ranger said:

See the wear on the shaft!  

 

 

I wonder if you could weld that up and turn it back down to spec?

[Lane Ranger 11,057]

23 minutes ago, Mike'sHorseBarn said:

 

 

I wonder if you could weld that up and turn it back down to spec?

 A good welder might !

[squonk 41,776]

When shopping for hoses ask how many wires are in the hose and what brand fittings. There are expensive ones and some cheap junk. I made Weatherhead brand hoses at Napa. 3 wire hose and quite stiff. I bought a cheaper pair of hoses online for my C-160 and they made it a year. I'd rather spend the money than spray my shop and clothes with hyd. fluid. 

[Handy Don 12,912]

3 minutes ago, squonk said:

When shopping for hoses ask how many wires are in the hose and what brand fittings. There are expensive ones and some cheap junk. I made Weatherhead brand hoses at Napa. 3 wire hose and quite stiff. I bought a cheaper pair of hoses online for my C-160 and they made it a year. I'd rather spend the money than spray my shop and clothes with hyd. fluid. 

Good points all, Squonk, but please note that 3-wire hoses are also very stiff and larger in diameter--possibly too stiff or large to work for a particular application.

The HY (as well as other WH hydraulics) are all at much lower pressures than “commercial” systems (~700 psi vs. 2-4,000 psi). A one-wire hose will easily contain the pressure. Focus on where there is movement in the hoses, the type of fitting (and that it is correctly sized for both the inner and outer diameter of the hose), and how the fittings are attached to insure no “fatigue” ruptures. Also, if there is a place on the hose where in regular use it will rub, provide hose sheathing or support clamps.

[WHX?? 49,647]

I see Lane... I forgot that gear is part of the shaft. 

Good idea Mike ... I know Lowell has the driven gears too. @Achto had to replace one once. Maybe a guy could induction weld one of his to a new shaft???

[oliver2-44 10,019]

A Speedi Sleeve might work in this location. It might be a little far to drive one on the shaft. But I see the shaft has a flat on it from the end that might help reduce  the squeeze fit until you get to that seal area. I used one on my Oliver tractors diesel injector pump 10+ years ago. 
 

Dang out correct kept changing Speedi to Speedo

Edited January 7 by oliver2-44

[Achto 28,083]

44 minutes ago, WHX?? said:

I forgot that gear is part of the shaft

 

@Lane Ranger That gear was not part of the shaft on the Hien Werner pump that I took apart. In the pic below you can see that my dumb a$$ shattered that gear when I took my pump apart. Never tap on the shaft to remove the belt pulley unless the gear cover on the inside is removed.  Lesson learned. This gear was held on by a roll pin that drove into a blind hole. The hole for the pin is in between two of the gear teeth. I would have absolutely no idea how it could ever be removed with out damaging  the gear. Lucky for me. Lowell just happened to have a replacement gear. Otherwise my pump would have been scrap.

Edited January 7 by Achto

[Lane Ranger 11,057]

41 minutes ago, Achto said:

 

@Lane Ranger That gear was not part of the shaft on the Hien Werner pump that I took apart. In the pic below you can see that my dumb a$$ shattered that gear when I took my pump apart. Never tap on the shaft to remove the belt pulley unless the gear cover on the inside is removed.  Lesson learned. This gear was held on by a roll pin that drove into a blind hole. The hole for the pin is in between two of the gear teeth. I would have absolutely no idea how it could ever be removed with out damaging  the gear. Lucky for me. Lowell just happened to have a replacement gear. Otherwise my pump would have been scrap.

 

Dan. I thought the gear and shaft were two pieces.   I never removed a gear from shaft and maybe like you say it would be a difficult job on a blind hole.

 

But when I took apart pumps I never had a problem getting the outside belt pulley off.

 

The internals I have had completely apart except for the gear from the shaft.   

[adsm08 2,320]

21 hours ago, WHX?? said:

Might want to call him see if he is getting any. I think its a 5/8 x 3/4 or 1/2 x 5/8?? in any case it it's a common size a auto store may have. Last one i did i think I put two seals in it. See what he might be able to say about that. They are a bugger to put in like tranny input seals & might even be the same size as them. I usually get more than I need and hammer the first one flat just to get it out of the way. 

Lowell has the hoses but if you have a farm & barn close they might have them too. Yes HY shops can be quite proud of them. If you have the original hoses with the metal tube ends you'll have to add some 3/8 street ells on the pump for generic hoses. Lowell sells them with the 90.

https://wheelhorsepartsandmore.com/product/4853-4854-replacement-hydraulic-hoses-for-hy-2-hy-3/

 

I see he has the seal kits yet. 

https://wheelhorsepartsandmore.com/product/wheel-horse-hy-2-hy-3-953-1054-pump-seal-kit/

 

The seal kit is more than I want to spend on this repair. Particularly since the cheapest kit that includes one is $30, and I want at least 3.

 

I did have the idea of a trans input shaft seal. I have a few laying around.

 

 

Anyway, the fun gets better. Last night I though the one line had failed near the upper crimp and was spraying through the rubber. Tonight I found the real failure was the crimp at the front fitting. Just to add a little fun, I can't the fitting out of the ram. It's not reverse thread is it?

[WHX?? 49,647]

1 hour ago, adsm08 said:

want at least 3

Call him he has separated parts out of kits for me before. Let us know if it's the same seal as the tranny. I sure have wrecked enough of them ...

[adsm08 2,320]

21 hours ago, WHX?? said:

Call him he has separated parts out of kits for me before. Let us know if it's the same seal as the tranny. I sure have wrecked enough of them ...

 

I'll try it and report back. At the rate I get things done it will be at least the weekend before I get a shot at trying it. I spent all night tonight chasing between my town and the next one over looking for parts to repair the lines.

 

It's not ideal, but I found the fitting to make new lines from brake line.

[adsm08 2,320]

Well the input shaft seal I have on hand is much too large. The ID of that seal is bigger than the OD of the pump seal.

 

I got my new lines and fittings in though.

 

 

 

The long one, going to the rear of the ram should be ok long term. The shorter one will have to be replaced, probably in the short term, because the line was just barely long enough to reach, and not long enough to leave proper flex. The vibrations will break it eventually.

[adsm08 2,320]

I took some measurements on my shaft seal, it looked to be 1/2 ID x 3/4 OD. I did some looking, and I found these guys, anyone think they would work?

 

https://www.theoringstore.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=15842&srsltid=AfmBOopELfldElsAIUdLOzDoUidcdBnQ41MkmgYQFmI2O5vSIw9ivXLl

[adsm08 2,320]

After doing more research than I think I should have needed to (would have helped if I started looking in the right place instead of saving that for nearer to the end of the search) I found the seal listed on WheelHorsePartsandmore all by itself.

 

The issue was the way Lowell has it listed by application. It's the HY-2 pulley shaft seal part number, but apparently it was also used for a parking brake shaft seal on something, and that's the application he has it listed for.

 

At least they have come down in price.