416-8 with M16s Project

[OutdoorEnvy 1,578]

So my next project is this 416-8.  It's either an 87 or 88 year as it has the M16s Kohler.  The sticker is too faded to read anything on it.  But the price was right for a non-runner and I have been trying to be patient on the right deal for a single cylinder 16 to come a long and it finally did.  Story on this one is the seller purchased the place a couple months ago and this and some other items were parked behind a shed and he decided to see if they would sell before he pushed em to the curb for big trash day.  He knows nothing about it.  So this is a total start from square one and I'll wear the hat of investigator for a while.  Should be fun though and give myself some entertainment, that's what we'll call it for now.  I'll plan to get it back to normal working condition and keep it as a main user is the goal.  I'll share progress and may need guidance as well.  Let's get started with a rundown of what I have done and where I am at with it. 

 

As it came, also had a 42" RD deck

 

    

 

 

I did wash it off to start and gave it an oil rub down to see how the paint would respond

 

 

So first thing is the front tires have sidewall cracking and won't hold air for more than 10 mins.  Also the battery cables were crusty and connectors were spinning.  So tubes for the front tires and replacing the battery cables was first in line.  Cables are 4 AWG.

 

 

Wrestled with the tires and someone tried some tire flat repair gunk.  This stuff is gross and always seems to rust the rims away.  Glad to have that job over though

 

 

So I believe I found the main reason this rig was parked.  One of the rear hubs is ruined as the keyway was rubbed half a way and the woodruff key and hub essentially ate away at each other.  The axle shaft does seem fine thank goodness.  I think they attempted to fix a transmission oil leak and then didn't put the hub on right.  So I was lucky enough that a friend was sourcing some parts from another guy and he had a 1 1/8" hub for a decent price so he was making the trip the next day.  So whether it was luck or coincidence I'll take it either way.  So I do have the hub and woodruff key ready to go.  I ordered an axle seal for it and that is on the way.  I'll recycle this bad hub into a hub puller so not a total loss!

 

 

So the other bad news is this does have a push button start wired straight to the solenoid...lovely.  It does work and engine does turn over and seems to have compression and did have spark, Great!  But I would like this to work as intended with the key ignition switch so I dove into that area.  So the ignition switch did test bad with my multimeter.  It was pretty rusted up so I did get a new switch and fully tested and it works as expected.  So hooked it up and no signal to the solenoid.  Downloaded the wiring diagram and have been going down that rabbit hole for hours.  Still trying to follow the solenoid command flow.  First stop under the shifter plate revealed some chewing carnage.

 

If anyone has a pic or knows which of these 3 wires goes where that would be most helpful! 

 

 

So getting those refitted with new connectors and trying to figure out which ones connect to the clutch switch.  I tested the switch for continuity and it is working.  But I have 3 wires and only 2 plug into it.  I'm not sure where the 3rd wire goes right now.  Still studying the diagrams.  There was a parking brake switch under the shifter plate and it tested good as well.  I have traced power with the key switch on to the PTO switch but have not had luck tracing the solenoid signal.  So that's kind of where I am now.  I have ordered some new parts for maintenance items as I get it ready to run. 

 

Next things will be to continue trouble shooting the solenoid signal.  I will roll this out once I get the axle seal in and put the hub back on and wash it off while the seat fender is off.  I also realized the drive belt and clutch pulley is gone.  So I'll be sourcing those as well.  The rest seems to be there as best I can tell.  I'm sure there's more though waiting to be discovered.  I'll post updates as make progress or may be a cry for help. 

 

 

 

[Skwerl58 707]

Nice find! I have a 414-8 and I call it the beast because of how it is a hard worker. I struggle with wiring and electrical stuff so hats off to you in checking and keeping those switches operational. Keep working on it and clean the carb and you will have that thing running soon.

[peter lena 8,726]

@OutdoorEnvylike the oil down paint , help ,  a mineral oil . on top of a penetrating oil , really holds the lubricant soak in stage , enhancing recovery , have any alligator  clip test wires ? making it easy to jump over  problem areas . would almost think with the frayed debris  wiring , it would be easy to track down the connection areas , have also used  wiring cable wrap to all my stuff , and move wiring , chafe areas , eliminate source of  problem . your set up looks common , to a regular , brush off of  operational  , look overs . might also try some 303 , vinyl  recovery to black engine plastic trim / dash area . basically stay to the vital stuff , as you find and gain on it . done a few of those , mechanical / wiring  is base line , agree also on the carb , drop bowl  , restart anything on a seperate gallon of heavily treated fresh gas , pete  

[ebinmaine 68,406]

Niiiiice save!

 

On that hub, some folks can cut a new groove in them.  

@WHX?? may be able to comment here.  

 

Carefully check the carb for throttle shaft wear.  

 

Remember to utilize the "New to the Herd" thread.  Excellent tool there.  

 

 

 

[SylvanLakeWH 25,965]

[OutdoorEnvy 1,578]

37 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

Niiiiice save!

 

On that hub, some folks can cut a new groove in them.  

@WHX?? may be able to comment here.  

 

Carefully check the carb for throttle shaft wear.  

 

Remember to utilize the "New to the Herd" thread.  Excellent tool there.  

 

 

 

 

Yeah that's a great thread!  I'll inspect it.  I have cleaned the carb already and it was pretty clean all in all.  The throttle cable had been broke off at the lever but I think I have saved it but cutting a few inches off the metal tube and putting a new Z-bend in it.  It barely reaches but does, we'll see over time how it does.  The choke cable was seized but a few days of penetrating oil soaking and it has freed up.  The gas tank has old gas that I'll need to clean out and already have new fuel lines and filter ready to be put on.   

[WHX?? 49,175]

4 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

On that hub, some folks can cut a new groove in them.  

@WHX?? may be able to comment here.  

 

Oh yeah totally fixable...

Edited Saturday at 01:58 AM by WHX??

[ebinmaine 68,406]

10 hours ago, WHX?? said:

 

Oh yeah totally fixable...

 

 

I found a few I should send you sometime.  

[ebinmaine 68,406]

@WHX??

Anyone here on Redsquare putting full length hub key grooves in axles? 

[953 nut 55,827]

20 hours ago, OutdoorEnvy said:

If anyone has a pic or knows which of these 3 wires goes where that would be most helpful!

Looking at the photo from our manuals section posted below I think those wires were once connected to the PTO switch. The smaller black with a tracer color wires would go to the idiot lights.

Your starter solenoid signal feed passes through the low oil level relay, it is probably a metal can relay. There is a five wire connector (with only four wires) that goes to your engine, two of these wires will activate the relay on low oil level. If you unplug this connector for testing purposes it will take the low oil switch out of the equation. The other two wires are an ignition kill wire and a charging system wire and won't interfere with the solenoid signal.

I will follow along to see what you find.

 

[kpinnc 12,539]

10 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

Anyone here on Redsquare putting full length hub key grooves in axles? 

My Bronco has them. I wish I had a mill and could do it myself. So much better than woodruff keys! 
 

I would make every axle I have use standard key stock. Another benefit is that penetrating oil could actually reach into the hub if the keyway was visible. 

[OutdoorEnvy 1,578]

Success!  Well after more hours than I'd care to admit to of probing around I think I finally figured it out.  So in the pic below of the PTO Switch the prong that is bare is what the purple striped wire set was connected to.  I was not getting signal from that when key was in the start position.  I had traced the signal through the low oil sensor to the relay and at the PTO Switch.  But no signal was making it to the clutch switch.  So after probing around I realized the bare prong beside it was getting signal when the key was in the start position.  So I switch the purple wires to that one and I have start signal all the way to the solenoid wire.  So I guess someone switched these at some point?  That's my best guess as there are no other wires that are not connected.  So the push button in the last pic is removed and I think we are back to a functioning electrical system with the key switch and all safety switches still connected.  Outside of the ugly hole by the throttle lever I think we are in a good position going forward. 

 

Next up I am waiting on parts to arrive.  I need to replace the axle seal and get the new good hub on so I can wheel it out for a wash.  Then we have a clutch pulley, drive belt, and other engine tune up and maintenance to do like the gas tank cleaning and new fuel lines, etc.  Parts can't arrive soon enough!