Accidentally bent drive pulley when trying to remove...

[Alrashid2 310]

5 minutes ago, Bar Nuthin said:

My God! ? They trust you with weapons? 

HA! Thanks for a laugh on an otherwise stressful day. 

[Alrashid2 310]

@953 nut thanks for the advice! I'll look into the puller...

 

@8ntruck great story and advice, thanks for sharing. Yes, I'm not a fan of unsolved mysteries either... Nor do I like the waiting game. If this wasn't such a horrible job to do Id jump on it. But I worry I'll do even more harm, or get midway through and get stuck... I'm thinking the hood sticks out a hair farther past the pulley so maybe that'll act as a shield 

[Bar Nuthin 541]

11 minutes ago, Alrashid2 said:

I'm thinking the hood sticks out a hair farther past the pulley so maybe that'll act as a shield 

3 hours ago, Alrashid2 said:

Another one that I'm infamous for regretting soon later is "What's the worst that could happen?" 

 

Saving these quotes for future reference. 

[Alrashid2 310]

Just now, Bar Nuthin said:

 

Saving these quotes for future reference. 

Ugh there I go again 😂 

[Alrashid2 310]

Can't get in there with a caliper to measure the crack, so I used a Sharpie industrial to mark the top and bottom of the crack position on the bottom of the V. Hopefully since the belt doesn't go that deep, the marks will last!

[Handy Don 12,467]

Removing that pulley is a bit tedious, given that the PTO parts must all come off first. It can be a bit intimidating until you’ve done one, put it back together, and it works properly. I’ve only done one, but I’d go ahead and do another If the need arose. 

Things you might not think of:

- the inner roller bearings in the PTO shell need only the minimum good grease on reassembly--excess will run out and corrupt the clutch facing

- the clutch plate must remain perfectly flat and free of grease and oil--once the bolts are out, use only clean gloved hands to get it off and put it down on a clean rag out of the way of the rest of your work to keep it clean and dry (I’d advise not using any solvents on the facing)

- behind the drive pulley, on the crankshaft at the engine housing, is a seal. Heat or other violence on the crankshaft might well damage it--including excess in or out pressure on the crankshaft relative to the body of the engine.

- When putting on the new pulley, it should be snug and go on with no more than light hammer taps via a softwood block on the hub--it is perfectly ok to lightly oil the shaft and bore before assembly. Burrs or scratches on the shaft and bore MUST be removed beforehand.

[Alrashid2 310]

Thank you @Handy Don. I have actually pulled all but the pulley twice now! Once to replace the clutch and once today to attempt to pull the pulley... Your advice is all spot on. Thank you for reminding me of the seal too

[Pullstart 63,097]

3 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

 

YOU WILL LIKELY NEED A PROPER PULLER. 

@Pullstart recently posted a video to his own channel. He may be able to offer advice.  

 

 

 

 

I used a steering wheel puller kit, I believe.  Although I admit, I would run that thing ‘til the cows come home!

[Pullstart 63,097]

2 hours ago, 8ntruck said:

One option for you is to "fly and watch".  Just keep in mind that you will be seated in the rotation plane of a damaged pulley with a rim speed of around 3000 feet per minute.

With the belt guard in place, family jewels will be fine…

[Alrashid2 310]

@Pullstart that is the plan! I've learned if I painstakingly study how to solve a problem or repair, save dozens of websites and links, and take copious notes and record part numbers... The need for repair never actually happens! 

 

I'll monitor the crack this first year, and if it doesn't appear to grow, then I'm sending it!

[Alrashid2 310]

@Pullstart and in that vein... Can I get the link to your channel? Want to see how you pulled yours!

[tunahead72 2,433]

3 hours ago, Alrashid2 said:

... what I'm worried about is: ...

 

2. Nervous I won't be able to find the right replacement pulley. Looking online I was getting all sorts of different model/part numbers and have no clue how I'd find the right one ...

 

Have you found the correct parts manual or list for your particular tractor?  And if so, are you confused about the difference between the 7443 and the 7466 pulleys, or are there other numbers that show up somewhere?

 

[JimSraj 436]

In addition to A-Z out in Bethel, there is a guy, not far from you,  in Malvern that has a lot of Horse parts. He runs a fair number of adds on Marketplace if you want to contact him you can get his contact info there. Sorry I don’t have his number. 

[oliver2-44 9,872]

Over 40 years of working with 1930 to 1950 Cast Iron and Cast Steel industrial parts, we came across many  “indications”.  In the inspection world they were all “indications” until you proved depth or they truly broke. When cast metal cools it shrinks and leaves behind shrinkage flaws. Think of an inward wrinkle on the surface of the cast metal. When the surface of these shrinkage lines is machined they may go away or appear like a crack.  Dye check and mag particle inspection will usually highlight them as an indication. Ultrasonic inspection with an angle transducer may help tell if it actually has some depth.  In many case after the high tech inspections we would finally take a file or flapper disc and removed a 1/32 of metal to see if they would go away. 

I say all this because what I see in these pictures

7 hours ago, Alrashid2 said:

 

is a rusty or dirty indication line not a shiny new indication line.  I’m guessing this picture is after you ran it for a while. So yes it could have gotten rust or dirt wiped into it.  You’ve shown that you can inspect it with your bore scope. If it were me, I would put a dot of paint on the top edge of the pulley at each end of the indication. Then I would run it and go back and know I was looking at the exact same spot. 

The other thing you could do is take a file and remove a good filings worth of metal from the area. Then sand it smooth and see if you still see the indication. Yes you will be very very slightly distorting the pulley. But since it’s inward (creating a hole) it’s so slight the belt will ever know it’s there. 

Edited Friday at 04:44 AM by oliver2-44

[Pullstart 63,097]

8 hours ago, Alrashid2 said:

@Pullstart and in that vein... Can I get the link to your channel? Want to see how you pulled yours!

Here you go!

 (I think it’s in this video)

 

 

[ebinmaine 68,406]

This is the one I was thinking of: 

 

 

[Pullstart 63,097]

Yeah, as soon as I started watching for myself I knew it was wrong!  Thanks EB!

 

*edit* hey, at least it was the same engine swap project!

Edited Friday at 01:10 PM by Pullstart

[Alrashid2 310]

10 hours ago, Pullstart said:

I used a steering wheel puller kit, I believe.  Although I admit, I would run that thing ‘til the cows come home!

Thanks @Pullstart (and @ebinmaine ) - I was watching the first video a bit confused ha! I think I can find one of those steering wheel pullers pretty cheap... Question though: did you weld up some custom bolts for the puller just to save a trip to the hardware store? I'm no welder so wondering if I could just find the proper bolts to buy, should I end up doing the swap at some point...

 

9 hours ago, tunahead72 said:

 

Have you found the correct parts manual or list for your particular tractor?  And if so, are you confused about the difference between the 7443 and the 7466 pulleys, or are there other numbers that show up somewhere?

 

I found one that is close - according to the experts here the exact one for my model isnt out there online... I think mine is for a 1987 312-8, while I have a 1985. So wasn't sure if it was exactly the same... yes I think those were the 2 numbers I saw but I also saw some mentioned on some parts websites that were longer and started with 10xxxxx...

 

9 hours ago, JimSraj said:

In addition to A-Z out in Bethel, there is a guy, not far from you,  in Malvern that has a lot of Horse parts. He runs a fair number of adds on Marketplace if you want to contact him you can get his contact info there. Sorry I don’t have his number. 

I think I've found him on Craigslist before while perusing! Saw a ton of listings out of Malvern. I wonder if he is a member on the forum? I've texted him twice about 2 separate parts, and he started to respond but then never got back to me... that was over a month ago...

 

@oliver2-44: thanks for your detailed response. My wife originally went to school for jewelry making, so I used to hear a lot about diamond indications! Likewise, a lot of those methods you mentioned I have read about in regards to AR-15 bolt carrier groups - similar inspection process of "indications" I believe.

As much as I wish this was an old shrinkage mark, it is 100% fresh and caused by me putting a long prybar between the pulley and the engine, and prying toward me. I ran it for maybe 10 min and took the photos 10 minutes after the initial damage. That being said, I hope you are right that this is just an "indication" and not a full blown "crack" - my hope is the fissure I found doesn't go very deep. Part of me is tempted to take your advice and continue sanding the surface to see if it goes away, but again, I need to stop listening to that part of my mind  (see @Bar Nuthin's signature!!!) - I agree with you it shouldn't make a lick of difference to the belt, but I more often than not tinker and make things worst and worst! Reminds me of some cartoon I saw (or maybe this is a high school memory) where a guy is trying to trim his beard, keeps making it uneven, and before you know it he's cut the beard 4" up his neck! I think I may stop while I'm ahead and still have a running tractor. Maybe once I feel more confident in the Plan B of replacing the pulley, I'll get in there more, when there is less risk of being down and out should i ruin something!

 

 I will definitely do the drop of paint though! Great idea, as that should last longer than the sharpie marks. 

[Pullstart 63,097]

I am a fabricator/builder/hillbilly/Midwest cheap, so yeah I extended some bolts.  The thread is 1/4”-20 so you could get some threaded rod and washers and nuts and cut to length.  

[tunahead72 2,433]

11 minutes ago, Alrashid2 said:

...

 

I found one that is close - according to the experts here the exact one for my model isnt out there online... I think mine is for a 1987 312-8, while I have a 1985. So wasn't sure if it was exactly the same... yes I think those were the 2 numbers I saw but I also saw some mentioned on some parts websites that were longer and started with 10xxxxx...

 

...

 

I haven't seen one for the 1985 models either, but there is a full parts and service manual for the 1986 300/400 series models here that should be VERY close to your 1985:

Tractor 1986 300-Series IPL SM Wiring.pdf - 1985-1990 - RedSquare Wheel Horse Forum

 

In section 14, you can see that the 7466 pulley was used for the 8-speed models like yours, and the 7443 was used on the automatics.  I've never had any of my drive pulleys off (can't wait to watch Kevin's video to see how it's done), but everything I've read here on the forum says that the 7466 is a 4" outer diameter, while the 7443 is 5-1/4" o.d.  Can you get close enough to yours to estimate its diameter?

 

The manual above has a really nice section (#18) of service information that I found incredibly useful when I first started learning how to take care of my Wheel Horses, and I still refer back to it when I need to.

 

[Lee1977 6,803]

The pulley for a Kohler single cylinder 10 to16 HP 8 speed is 4" diameter and 1 1/8" bore.  

[Alrashid2 310]

22 minutes ago, tunahead72 said:

 

I haven't seen one for the 1985 models either, but there is a full parts and service manual for the 1986 300/400 series models here that should be VERY close to your 1985:

Tractor 1986 300-Series IPL SM Wiring.pdf - 1985-1990 - RedSquare Wheel Horse Forum

 

In section 14, you can see that the 7466 pulley was used for the 8-speed models like yours, and the 7443 was used on the automatics.  I've never had any of my drive pulleys off (can't wait to watch Kevin's video to see how it's done), but everything I've read here on the forum says that the 7466 is a 4" outer diameter, while the 7443 is 5-1/4" o.d.  Can you get close enough to yours to estimate its diameter?

 

The manual above has a really nice section (#18) of service information that I found incredibly useful when I first started learning how to take care of my Wheel Horses, and I still refer back to it when I need to.

 

Oh wow this is super helpful, thank you! Just double checked and the manual I have is a 1988 - looks like the 88 part of 7466 matches the 86 manual you sent. Hadn't seen that one yet so thank you! I'll see if I can download all the PDFs and combine them into one... could maybe re-upload that if it helps anyone?

 

And wow, that #18 section is awesome! Wish I had that a month ago! Thank you for sharing this

 

@Lee1977 Thanks for confirming! Can't get the measurement of the bore right now but will when the time comes. 

 

Looking at the pulley roughly, can't get an exact measurement but it looks a lot more like 4" than 5 1/4"! Thanks guys!

[gt14rider 798]

Just typed (wheelhorse 7466 for sale ) found 4 or 5, also A/Z tractor one of are vendors says he has 17 in stock.  $ 40- $135.  You want a 4" pulley,  for a manual  transmission. Nothing to think about. 

[gt14rider 798]

@Alrashid2  if you go looking for a pulley  look for a cast # on back of pulley  7466 .  Look at the pulley  not what it came off, a lot of different models used that pulley.  Might find a cheaper  one. Good luck.

[kpinnc 12,538]

On 12/19/2024 at 9:34 PM, Handy Don said:

Burrs or scratches on the shaft and bore MUST be removed beforehand.

 
Probably the most important step to ensure the next time it comes off without destroying something. 400 grit sandpaper is your friend. Takes off rust and high spots without removing anything else. Also wire brush the keyway. Flat file the set screw bite marks down to flush with the shaft. Anti-seize is also quite helpful. Even after the oil bakes out, the aluminum helps prevent the brown welds.