Well back to square one!

[fourwheelhorseman 320]

And more

[fourwheelhorseman 320]

Thanks Ebmaine for the help in pulling the counter  balance gears!

[WHX?? 49,175]

Glad to hear it's savable ... 

[WHX?? 49,175]

Question here ... how does one know if a motor has got them in or not without opening ... year, serial no or spec?? 

Do all magnums have them? 

[ebinmaine 68,406]

7 minutes ago, WHX?? said:

Question here ... how does one know if a motor has got them in or not without opening ... year, serial no or spec?? 

Do all magnums have them? 

 

My understanding is that some early 10 HP did not...

All other K Series do. 

 

Magnum.... ??

 

@kpinnc

@Pullstart

 

[Bar Nuthin 542]

21 minutes ago, WHX?? said:

Question here ... how does one know if a motor has got them in or not without opening ... year, serial no or spec?? 

 

To expand on this question - Is there any way to know if they've been previously removed without pulling the pan? I'm guessing not, unless you have an expert ear maybe.

My K301 has a 0.20 over piston, so someone has had it apart. Don't know if they had the sense to pull the balance gears.

Does it make sense to pull a good running engine to remove them, or better to leave it alone?

Edited Sunday at 02:08 PM by Bar Nuthin

[RED-Z06 2,246]

I pulled them out of my M12 because i had noise, it shook so badly afterwards I really didnt use it much, some remove them and have no vibration.

[pfrederi 17,886]

2 hours ago, WHX?? said:

Question here ... how does one know if a motor has got them in or not without opening ... year, serial no or spec?? 

Do all magnums have them? 

 

 

Quick look at Magnum 16.  That list of variations that have the gears must be over 98% of all of them

 

 

Edited Sunday at 03:53 PM by pfrederi

[WHX?? 49,175]

1 hour ago, Bar Nuthin said:

any way to know if they've been previously removed without pulling the pan

Look down the oil fill with a bore scope of sorts??? 

 

1 hour ago, Bar Nuthin said:

pull a good running engine to remove them,

Another million dollar ? 

I vote leave them in unless a noise. But then again they could go at any time with out a notable noise. . We've had this discussion before and I think the general consensus was pull the motor and just do it. A motor @Achto put on his puller we pulled them out. Didn't hear the motor run before hand but the needles looked shaky when out. 

20 minutes ago, pfrederi said:

variations that have the gears

Run the spec number then is what your saying. I would agree. 

I posted this in another thread but worth repeating here. 

https://origin.kohlerenginesparts.com/oemparts/c/kohler_engines_k_series_k91_662_kt17_21/parts

 

https://origin.kohlerenginesparts.com/oemparts/c/kohler_engines_magnum_m_mv8_20/parts

 

[Lagersolut 679]

2 hours ago, RED-Z06 said:

I pulled them out of my M12 because i had noise, it shook so badly afterwards I really didnt use it much, some remove them and have no vibration.

 

This is why I'm nervous pulling them out of my 416 - it's a perfectly running K341 with no noise - other side if they let loose 99% chance its a boat anchor

[ebinmaine 68,406]

2 hours ago, Bar Nuthin said:

Does it make sense to pull a good running engine to remove them, or better to leave it alone?

 

17 minutes ago, WHX?? said:

We've had this discussion before and I think the general consensus was pull the motor and just do it.

 

IMHO....

Get em OUT while you can. 

It's a good running engine.  

Keep it that way!!

 

 

 

[squonk 41,350]

My K321 in my 953 was rebuilt by Richmond Red. There is more vibration in it than my 321 on my Power King and my 341 on my C160. I wear Mecanixwear impact gloves and the vibration doesn't bother me 

 

From Miller's site:

 

Various Kohler engine models K241, M10, K301, M12, K321, M14, K341, M16 and K361 use a Dynamic Balance System, which are two out-of-balance gears that rotate on stub shafts that's pressed into the PTO side of the engine block. These counterbalance gears rotate in opposite direction of the crankshaft. These gears reduce the rotating side thrust (vibrating affect) of the crankshaft. Most Kohler K-series K241 and Magnum M10 engines came from the factory without balance gears. Only thirteen K241 engines came from Kohler with balance gears installed. These engines have the specification numbers: 46578, 46634; (Allis Chalmers); 46590 (Yazoo); 46593, 46608, 46633 (John Deere); 46664, 46718, 46764, 46803 (Simplicity); 46809, 46810 (Grainger); and 46838 (Ingersoll Rand). And only four M10 engines came from Kohler with balance gears installed. These engines have the specification numbers: 461509 (Ingersoll Equipment); 461513, 461526, 461550, 461551 (Ingersoll Rand); 461534 (Cub Cadet); and 461543 (Compair Kellogg). All other specification numbers for the K241 and M10 engines have no balance gears. 

 However, if your engine vibrates a lot, it should to be dynamically and precision spin-balanced. But most K241 and M10 engines (without balance gears) run smoothly from the factory without balance gears originally installed

 

[kpinnc 12,539]

7 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

My understanding is that some early 10 HP did not...

All other K Series do. 

My understanding is that they were not needed in a 10hp because the stroke is shorter and the piston is smaller. Sounds like pure guesstimating to me, but I’m ok with that. 
 

7 hours ago, Bar Nuthin said:

To expand on this question - Is there any way to know if they've been previously removed without pulling the pan? I'm guessing not,

Balance gears give a low whine above half throttle, just due to the gear mesh. That does not indicate trouble. It’s just how a Kohler sounds. 

[Bar Nuthin 542]

6 minutes ago, kpinnc said:

Balance gears give a low whine above half throttle, just due to the gear mesh. That does not indicate trouble. It’s just how a Kohler sounds. 

 

Hopefully the whining pitch isn't on the same frequency as my wife's. Those hearing receptors have been disconnected for years! 

[kpinnc 12,539]

Just now, Bar Nuthin said:

Hopefully the whining pitch isn't on the same frequency as my wife's. Those hearing receptors have been disconnected for years!

I would say it’s closer to the same frequency of a teenager who just got grounded. You should be fine! 

 

If it reaches the same grating, high frequency as the pitch you refer to, those balance gears have already failed! 

[WHX?? 49,175]

Are those pins they spin on visible from the outside on a installed motor? Bearing plate hiding them? 

[ebinmaine 68,406]

4 minutes ago, WHX?? said:

Are those pins they spin on visible from the outside on a installed motor? Bearing plate hiding them? 

They're on the PTO side

[WHX?? 49,175]

5 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

They're on the PTO side

Ahhh

[kpinnc 12,539]

2 hours ago, WHX?? said:

Are those pins they spin on visible from the outside on a installed motor? Bearing plate hiding them? 

If I remember you can see them with the PTO removed if it’s an 8-speed. Hydro drive pulley is bigger and I’m not sure. 
 

But, the pins have to stay regardless.