Well back to square one!

[fourwheelhorseman 320]

I was just putting the finishing touches on my newest C160 this morning, I figured it had some hours on it, but was hoping it had a lot of life left in it. Well, I was wrong, I had it running well thanks to ebmaine sending me a freshly rebuilt carb ( actually 2 of them)   When tragedy struck!  From behind the flywheel at around 700 rpm, a clattering started.. then the engine died and flywheel coasted to a slow stop, I’m pretty sure I broke a rod. Not a huge deal, but still a setback. Now I’m left wondering, do I really want to put the time and effort into removing the engine, inspecting all internal components,  tearing it down, micing crank to insure the correct rod size,  while I’m at it installing new rings, honing cylinder and installing new rod.  If o go through the tear down project, then I also have to hope and pray that the crank isn’t damaged too badly… anyhow in all

my years of wheelhorse ownership.. this is the first time I’ve ever busted a rod. 

[WHX?? 49,175]

Normally I would say it did't happen if there are no pics but we hate to see busted rods and ventilated blocks. 

I would say at least tear it down and see what or how it happened. Get an idea of work/cost to build it anyway. 

Maybe fix it ... sweet sixteens just don't fall out of the sky anymore. 

 

9 minutes ago, fourwheelhorseman said:

ebmaine sending me a freshly rebuilt carb ( actually 2 of them)

Not one he's supposed to have for me i hope? 

[OutdoorEnvy 1,578]

Well that’s a bummer.  I agree on at least opening it up to see and know what happened and how salvageable it might be.  If it’s too bad to save you can save it for a parts engine.  
 

I got lucky on a k241 that had a busted rod and the rod did knick the cylinder wall but it was near the bottom and not in the ring travel section.  New rod, piston and rings to match the size it had and a cylinder hone and it’s been fine.

[Lagersolut 679]

K341's are getting hard to find and they're a beast - I wouldn't think twice opening it up and if could be repaired .....done  I love hearing mine bark when I'm in long grass with the 48" deck - the big box store beer cans the neighbors mow with the 416 is not ....lol

Edited December 15 by Lagersolut

[WHX?? 49,175]

1 hour ago, OutdoorEnvy said:

I got lucky on a k241 that had a busted rod and the rod did knick the cylinder wall but it was near the bottom and not in the ring travel section.  New rod, piston and rings to match the size it had and a cylinder hone and it’s been fine.

Exact same thing here. No idea why it let go ... good oil and every thing. Don't think I even did a piston or rings or hone or measured... I knew no better back then. Better running Kohler I have now. 

[953 nut 55,827]

10 hours ago, fourwheelhorseman said:

in all

my years of wheelhorse ownership.. this is the first time I’ve ever busted a rod.

Is the engine block OK externally, no hole where the rod came out? If the block isn't ventilated then you should take a look.

About fifteen years ago I had a rod let go, pulled the block off the oil pan and found no damage other than the rod itself. Honed the cylinder and put in an eBay rod/piston kit, engine has been running great ever since. 

[ebinmaine 68,406]

11 hours ago, WHX?? said:

Not one he's supposed to have for me i hope? 

Oh no no no no.  

@fourwheelhorseman supplied the rebuildables. 

 

Actually Jim yours are going in next. 

[OutdoorEnvy 1,578]

10 hours ago, WHX?? said:

Exact same thing here. No idea why it let go ... good oil and every thing. Don't think I even did a piston or rings or hone or measured... I knew no better back then. Better running Kohler I have now. 

on mine the PO ran it low on oil I believe.  It didn’t have much and the crankshaft journal had melted aluminium from the rod on it.  It seemed to have been rebuilt recently with .010 over piston and didn’t have much carbon on the head. 

[fourwheelhorseman 320]

1 hour ago, OutdoorEnvy said:

on mine the PO ran it low on oil I believe.  It didn’t have much and the crankshaft journal had melted aluminium from the rod on it.  It seemed to have been rebuilt recently with .010 over piston and didn’t have much carbon on the head. 

I changed the oil in it when I first got it, it was full of oil that was pretty dirty, but not unusually so. It had a weird howling at a higher rpm, I was investigating that sound when she let loose. I’ll dig into it some this week. 

[RED-Z06 2,246]

Does it have compression spun by hand?  Its really odd to have one let go at idle without a ferocious knock and alot of warning.

[fourwheelhorseman 320]

3 hours ago, RED-Z06 said:

Does it have compression spun by hand?  Its really odd to have one let go at idle without a ferocious knock and alot of warning.

There was no warning, no ferocious knock.. it did have a weird howling near the flywheel area…but as weird noises go, it was a hard one to actually locate.I’ve not heard that type of noise before and red that it could be from a a partially plugged air filter or air leak. I’ve only had this tractor for about a month, only ran it for a few minutes at a time. It sat for about 5-7 years before I got it. Now, for sure there is no compression and the flywheel spins freely. I’m certain it’s a broken rod..

[OutdoorEnvy 1,578]

You might make sure the flywheel or key didn’t break.  Not common really but have seen that on engines before.  A rod breaking is usually pretty violent when it happens.  

[WHX?? 49,175]

Been my experience when a rod lets go it either punches the block out on one side or busts the cam on the other but one just never knows. 

 

Keep us posted please. 

[RED-Z06 2,246]

1 hour ago, fourwheelhorseman said:

There was no warning, no ferocious knock.. it did have a weird howling near the flywheel area…but as weird noises go, it was a hard one to actually locate.I’ve not heard that type of noise before and red that it could be from a a partially plugged air filter or air leak. I’ve only had this tractor for about a month, only ran it for a few minutes at a time. It sat for about 5-7 years before I got it. Now, for sure there is no compression and the flywheel spins freely. I’m certain it’s a broken rod..

I wonder if the dipper was broken off, that would mean that effectively the oil was sitting undisturbed in the sump...no splashing

[kpinnc 12,539]

16 hours ago, fourwheelhorseman said:

It had a weird howling at a higher rpm, I was investigating that sound when she let loose.

Having not heard the sound, I don’t claim to know. That being said, balance gears certainly give a little whistling noise at higher RPM. Even more so when the needle bearings aren’t exactly great. 
 

3 hours ago, RED-Z06 said:

I wonder if the dipper was broken off,

If a small part fell into the case, the dipper would be easy to snap off. 
 

Pure speculation on my part. I’d love to see inside that engine. A K341 certainly warrants opening her up. 

[fourwheelhorseman 320]

9 hours ago, RED-Z06 said:

I wonder if the dipper was broken off, that would mean that effectively the oil was sitting undisturbed in the sump...no splashing

That was my thoughts, I didn’t run it enough to even get to know the tractor! I’ll take oil pan off and report back. 

[fourwheelhorseman 320]

9 hours ago, WHX?? said:

Been my experience when a rod lets go it either punches the block out on one side or busts the cam on the other but one just never knows. 

 

Keep us posted please. 

I can tell you there is no hole in the block, the flywheel spins easy along with the pto side of the crank, it’s for sure the rod, first time it’s ever happened to me!

[squonk 41,349]

Howling noise near the flywheel could be a bad crank bearing and the resulting failure could snap the crank with no damage to the block.  A lot of rods break right below the wrist pin  and that will keep the damage up in the cylinder.

Edited December 16 by squonk

[fourwheelhorseman 320]

3 minutes ago, squonk said:

Howling noise near the flywheel could be a bad crank bearing and the resulting failure could snap the crank with no damage to the block.  A lot of rods break right below the wrist pin  and that will keep the damage up in the cylinder.

I can spin the flywheel and look at the pto side as I do the pto spins freely, that could mean that the rod snapped. It might be a bit, but I’ll dig into it and see what happened. 

[WHX?? 49,175]

Some years back now my step son didn't check his oil at a plow day ... a nice '68 Raider 12. There is a video here of it blowing I'll have to see if I can find it. 

I took custody of it after we threw him in jail for animal abuse. I pulled it apart and the cam was busted and nothing but sludge and rod pieces in the pan. Rebuilt it for less than 300 with a .020 bore job. We started mandatory oil checks at plow day after that. 

 

[squonk 41,349]

When the rod breaks near the piston, quite often the engine is salvageable. When the rod ruins the crank is where cost and parts availability become a problem.

[RED-Z06 2,246]

46 minutes ago, WHX?? said:

Some years back now my step son didn't check his oil at a plow day ... a nice '68 Raider 12. There is a video here of it blowing I'll have to see if I can find it. 

I took custody of it after we threw him in jail for animal abuse. I pulled it apart and the cam was busted and nothing but sludge and rod pieces in the pan. Rebuilt it for less than 300 with a .020 bore job. We started mandatory oil checks at plow day after that. 

 

Im going to go check my C100 oil now...

 

 

[squonk 41,349]

This K341 was running with a small strange noise. I pulled the engine and tossed in a spare. When I got this engine years ago it smoked and the oil was like coal. Kept changing it and it cleaned up. Ran it for like 8 years before I decided the noise was enough of a concern. I have no idea how long the piston was broke.

 

 

 

 

[fourwheelhorseman 320]

Well, those balance gears struck again! It would appear that the upper balance gear, closest to the piston skirt actually came into contact with the skirt and busted it. The last tooth on the balance gear is missing, so that’s why I say this. Anywho here are some photos. The connecting rod is fine, the bore is fine and the crank is as well.. I’m pretty fortunate, all I need is a rod a piston and a set of rings as well as an oil pan gasket and I’ll be back in business! Btw .. I removed the balance gears by tapping the rod inward and then replacing the rod.

[RED-Z06 2,246]

4 minutes ago, fourwheelhorseman said:

Well, those balance gears struck again! It would appear that the upper balance gear, closest to the piston skirt actually came into contact with the skirt and busted it. The last tooth on the balance gear is missing, so that’s why I say this. Anywho here are some photos. The connecting rod is fine, the bore is fine and the crank is as well.. I’m pretty fortunate, all I need is a rod a piston and a set of rings as well as an oil pan gasket and I’ll be back in business! Btw .. I removed the balance gears by tapping the rod inward and then replacing the rod.

IMG_2877.mov

Makes sense, it didnt have the earmark symptoms for a rod, they usually let you know.