Uh oh - Horse won't start, cranking but not turning over

[oliver2-44 9,907]

2 hours ago, Alrashid2 said:

Any idea how to get to it? I'm thinking removing the engine shroud? The pieces im moving seem to thread/unthread but not sure which direction they should go

Yes you can remove the engine tin shroud. But you have to be very careful undoing those little 1/4” bolts that screw in the aluminum bearing plate.  They like to corrode to the aluminum and twist off. Tighten them a tiny bit, loosen a tiny bit, repeat, repeat. When you reinstall them coat them with a light coat of anti-seize. Depending on how things are arrange around you engine it may be easier to pull the starter. On my C160 2 bolts hold the starter and one electrical connection.  Some older starter bendix  gears are steel and newer one are plastic. On the steel ones you can use brake clean spray. Move/screw the spring loaded gear back and forth to clean the shaft the gear is on. Then lube it with dry graphite. Use no oil or grease because it will collect dirt/grit and cause it to stick. While you have access to the front of the starter check if the brass.bushing (which you can’t see) In the front of the started cover has excessive wear. Push the starter gear sideways hard with you hand. Watch for movement where the shaft enters the front of the starter motor. A tiny bit of movement is normal. A 1/16 is excessive. It will work with a lot of side movement (for a while).   But that would be telling you it’s time to replace that front bushing. Sooner than later. 

[Alrashid2 319]

@oliver2-44 thanks for your instruction. I'll be really careful unscrewing them... and will take your advice. 

 

I'm thinking maybe I can take your advice and just remove the starter instead. Is it normal for me to be able to twist that piece in my photo/video? It is just rattling around and I don't remember it doing that before

[oliver2-44 9,907]

4 minutes ago, Alrashid2 said:

Is it normal for me to be able to twist that piece in my photo/video? It is just rattling around and I don't remember it doing that before

It shouldn’t really just easily rattle around. But you should be able to slide it back and forth along the shaft. It is spring loaded to hold it back-disengaged. Then when you engage the starter the rotational force throws it forward enabling the starter gear to engage the flywheel gear. When the engine starts and turns faster that the starter the starter gear disengages and the spring pull it backwards. 

[Alrashid2 319]

Well that was easy to remove the starter! Thanks @oliver2-44 you saved me a lot of time

 

Well I think I have an idea why those components are loose - I think you guys said it's called the Bendix assembly?

 

Looking online it looks like that mangled metal used to be a spring... Guessing that is what kept these components from rattling around.

 

Any idea how I can repair this? Maybe a new spring?

 

EDIT: Also wondering: How the heck did the spring get mangled like this in the first place!? Unless it was barely hanging onto life from the Previous Owner and I finally killed it!

Edited December 14, 2024 by Alrashid2

[Alrashid2 319]

Thought I'd post an update

 

Couldn't find any info online. So ended up eventually removing the nut on the end of the Bendix assembly - was pretty difficult as the starter mechanism kept spinning. Eventually with some vise grips and an impact driver I got the nut off.

 

Then I found a spring in my nuts and bolts can, trimmed it down to size, reassembled, and tested her out.

 

Well, she started! I also looked with the hood open and saw the mechanism of action that @oliver2-44 explained: gear moved outward to start, then when engine got going the gear moved back inward via the spring.

 

Not sure where the spring came from and how it'll hold up but she runs again! Would still like to hear your opinions in case I should get back in there and better future proof the repair.

 

Attached a photo of the remaining chunk of spring I cut off when trimming it to length (I estimated number of coils by the mangled rings I found remaining from the original starter).

[oliver2-44 9,907]

Excellent

Did you check that front bushing clearance by trying to move shaft sideways?

 

Your bendix gear  sure looks clean with very sign of wear on the teeth. Even the cadmium plating looks intact on the teeth. 
I wonder if the PO put a new bendix on there and the chinesium spring failed. 
Does the paint patina on the starter body match the rest of the engine or is it brighter like it could be a complete replacement starter. 

[Alrashid2 319]

Hey Oliver yes I did check and it seemed like almost no play. I wonder if you're right - the starter does look original though. Paint matches and it has some numbers on the back of the mount in old 80s vintage font

 

The previous owner seemed to take care of this thing though. Lots of little replacement parts and mods I've found. This guy built a custom seat mount that almost looked factory. I bought the tractor off his brother in law who was cleaning out the estate. Hopefully the old Horser is looking down from above and appreciating that I'm continuing to maintain her!

 

Out of curiosity what would you guys have done about the spring? Find a similar spring at Ace and replace? I assume that part isnt around anymore ?

[Alrashid2 319]

Wanted to post an update!

 

In summary I tried to start my tractor a few weeks ago in 30F weather with straight 30w oil. Cranked on and off for minutes but would not start...

 

Many thought it was a fuel issue, but this tractor has always started right up and has a fresh pump, so I didn't think it was that. Likewise, I found my starter Bendix spring totally mangled - however, I kind of think this broke as a result of the trying to start, not the cause of the no start.

 

That day, I had drained a quart of 30w and replaced with warm 10w30, and she started right up again even with the broken starter spring.

 

Well fast forward to this morning. Even colder now - 18F! - and I went out to the shed to try and start her.

 

She started right up, same as she did on a 60F day! Going forward I think I'll do a 50/50 mix of 1 quart 10w30 and 1 quart 30w. 

 

Thanks guys!

[peter lena 8,822]

@Alrashid2`  years ago , did some choke cable , related carb linkage , functional check , using a seperate starter button , to be right on top of possibilities , very small adjustments , both on cable pull and butterfly  closure , insuring engine suck to fuel set up , that was it , been near instant starts , since . also have battery tenders on my horses , and an incandescent  old style bulb in a Walmart , 8" reflector , under engines , in  cold sheds , no smokey starts , just  start ups , engines also  settle down easily to an idle stage . pete  

[Alrashid2 319]

That's awesome. Unfortunately my horse lives in an unheated, no electricity shed about 60 yards from the house.