Uh oh - Horse won't start, cranking but not turning over

[Alrashid2 319]

Hey guys. Was all excited to move the tractor up from the shed to the garage today to get some work done, but the tractor won't start! She cranks and cranks but won't turn over. Eventually makes some really weird noises. I tried 4 times but am a bit nervous now as the noises don't sound right and I also didn't want to burn up the starter...

 

Uploaded a video. Listen to the noise! Any ideas?

 

https://imgur.com/a/ajT9UGh

 

I've had her since Oct and she started right up every time until now. This is the coldest it's been - it's 30F here today. I also am running straight 30W oil... wonder if that has something to do with it? 

 

Any advice? Thanks guys...

Edited December 13, 2024 by Alrashid2

[Alrashid2 319]

UPDATE: 

I drained out 1 quart (50% of the crankcase) of the cold SAE30 oil, and replaced it with warm 10w30 oil from the house. Took a few more tries and some playing back and forth with the choke and throttle, but finally got it started and she ran like a champ!

 

Thinking it had to do with the cold 30w oil, but would like to see if you guys agree. And if this is the case, I think I should go back to running 10w30 oil, or maybe even a 50/50 mix of 30w and 10w30. 

What do you guys think? 

[953 nut 56,091]

10 W 30 is called for in clod weather in the Kohler Engine Manual.

[Alrashid2 319]

Thanks @953 nut. I went back and forth on what oil to choose, as I'll be running this all year long and in hot hot weather too. I won't be switching oil viscosities from season to season, so was thinking it was better to run 30w all year instead of 10w30...

 

But after this morning, thinking that isn't the best approach! You guys think I'd be OK just running 10w30 all year long, including in summertime? Or maybe 1 quart of 30w and 1 quart of 10w30 mixed is a good middle ground? 

[953 nut 56,091]

[Alrashid2 319]

Yup, I know... but I am not going to swap oils back and forth, so need to find one that is the lesser of 2 evils.

 

I think I rather consume a bit of oil and maybe have some more leaks than not be able to start her up in the winter!

[SylvanLakeWH 26,101]

I use 30 wt year round no issue in Michigan. Just warm it up a few minutes before I plow snow... 

 

I use a marine primer bulb to get gas into the carb and I keep the battery on a tender...

 

Always fires right up...

[Alrashid2 319]

Hey @SylvanLakeWH - that is what I was hoping to do too. This morning at 30F is when this occurred. Only thing I tried differently was to swap in the lighter, warmer oil... 

 

Do you store yours outside? How cold is it in winter for you? 

[SylvanLakeWH 26,101]

Stored Inside unheated garage. Winters commonly avg 15-30 degrees but can go to zero on occasion...

 

I bet you had more a fuel delivery issue than a "cold" issue due to oil...

Edited December 13, 2024 by SylvanLakeWH

[Alrashid2 319]

I wonder... can cold weather cause a fuel delivery issue? 

 

When I was turning it over, I was getting whispy smoke out of the exhaust. Just wouldn't ignite. I did find it odd that after cranking for a bit, it'd stop and could just hear that whining sound... unless that is normal on these when you crank too long... 

[Bar Nuthin 703]

I'm more inclined to think your starting issue was a weak battery. They too can be affected by the cold. My 12 hp Kohler is in an unheated garage and it lit right up at 15°F yesterday. 30W SAE.

[Bar Nuthin 703]

1 hour ago, Alrashid2 said:

Yup, I know... but I am not going to swap oils back and forth

 

You really should be changing your oil a couple time a year already. Why not run 30W in the summer and 10W-30 in the winter?

[SylvanLakeWH 26,101]

If weak battery is ruled out as @Bar Nuthin points out, try a Marine primer bulb. I bet it fires right up...

 

Heres mine:

 

 

[8ntruck 7,161]

I run my 14-8 on 30 wt.  Last time I parked it in the shed, I ran the gas out of the carb.  

 

Had a job for the tractor today.  Temp was in the mid teens. Like normal on an empty carb, it needed some extra cranking.  Yes, it cranked a bit slower than in the summertime, and it needed a couple extra cranks, but once it fired, it took off without issue.  I did let it warm up at maybe 3/4 throttle for a few minutes before driving off.  Glanced at the ammeter to make sure it was charging, too.

[Alrashid2 319]

2 hours ago, Bar Nuthin said:

I'm more inclined to think your starting issue was a weak battery. They too can be affected by the cold. My 12 hp Kohler is in an unheated garage and it lit right up at 15°F yesterday. 30W SAE.

The battery didn't sound weak though when cranking. And she kept cranking over and over again until I finally got her started! Voltmeter looked good too, above 12V

[Alrashid2 319]

Did you guys watch and listen to my video of it cranking? It didn't sound like a weak battery and definitely didn't sound like the gas lost prime. The cranking sounded odd, and after 10 sec or so it stopped and whined even though I was still turning the key

Edited December 13, 2024 by Alrashid2

[lynnmor 7,361]

10 minutes ago, Alrashid2 said:

Did you guys watch and listen to my video of it cranking? It didn't sound like a weak battery and definitely didn't sound like the gas lost prime. The cranking sounded odd, and after 10 sec or so it stopped and whined even though I was still turning the key

I thought that the after whine was after you left up on the key.  I would go over the wiring from the battery to ground and from the battery to the starter.  A weak (cheap) battery can act like that, also a failing solonoid can be an issue.  After checking the cables, try cleaning and lubricating the solonoid.  Still, you were cranking good enough to fire and you might need to adjust your choke and throttle habits till you find what works.  On more thing that annoys me is calling cranking and turning over as if they are two different things.

[oliver2-44 9,907]

I don’t have the app to play the video. 
 

3 minutes ago, Alrashid2 said:

The cranking sounded odd, and after 10 sec or so it stopped and whined even though I was still turning the key

As I  recall you have a fairly new battery and an electric fuel pump. If you have electricity in the shed you store the tractor a battery tender and a block heater are your friend. 
I wonder if your starter gear wasn’t fully engaged and then slipped off the flywheel making the whine. If the starter shaft is dirty/greasy the gear may not spin out and engage the flywheel properly.  These starter front shafts and gear are to be clean and only lubed with dry graphite. The Kohler manual specified how often  this should be cleaned (sorry I’m on my iPhone and don’t have a manual). This maintenance is rarely done by previous owners). I disassemble and clean the starter on every new to me tractor as I go through it over the 1st year that I own it. There is a thread about starter maintenance by Stevasarus with lots of good comments added. Let me know if you need me to find it. 

[Alrashid2 319]

Hey guys I appreciate your advice. @oliver2-44 maybe you're into something..

 

I noticed by manually turning the crank pulley, it sounded very early when I know it didn't before.

 

Well, I found some loose components. Any idea what I'm looking at here and how to repair? Maybe it's just something that came un-torqued?

 

 

[Alrashid2 319]

Here is a video of me moving the loose components (maybe they're spinning?)

 

For those that are able to see the link. 

 

https://imgur.com/a/TxuUjSp

[D_Mac 8,852]

It's your starter. Check to see if it is loose or lubricate the armature. It's not fully engaging and disengaging.

[Alrashid2 319]

Any idea how to get to it? I'm thinking removing the engine shroud? The pieces im moving seem to thread/unthread but not sure which direction they should go

[953 nut 56,091]

You are pointing to the Bendix drive from your starter motor. It will spin out to engage the flywheel when the starter is turning and spring back when it is not.

38 minutes ago, oliver2-44 said:

a block heater

Oliver has your answer if you don't want to change the oil twice a year. Wallyworld can send you one for under $ 20.00.  https://www.walmart.com/ip/HOMEMAXS-Car-Engine-Block-Heater-Pad-Car-Oil-Pan-Heater-Pad-Hydraulic-Fluid-Pad-US-Plug/1035683369

[D_Mac 8,852]

Grab a hold of the starter and see if it came loose. It will move up and down if it did. Some times they work loose and need to be tightened back down. It's not turning over because the starter isn't engaging. You don't want to strip the gears so tighten it up and lubricate the bendix.

[JCM 9,523]

@Alrashid2  I bought this 312-8 new in 1989. I was told by the dealer to run 10W -30 year round. This is in Mass and Maine with just over 600 hrs and NEVER an issue. It works for me.This Kohler burns ZERO oil and is the best running smooth engine among the collection.