Messing with gas line

[JoeB 32]

My tractor cranks a while before it get enough fuel to start. Thats tough in the battery so im looking for a fix. My first thought was a one way valve so the gas cant drain out of the carb. Be leaves the possibility of deposits in the carb. Then i thought of a valve to shut off the gas next to the carb. But when i open the valve the gas may drain back before i start the engine. So now im thinking of a valve closest to the carb snd a one way between the valve and the gas tank. 
anyone got an opinion.   Thats a joke!!

thanks

 

[ebinmaine 68,742]

Options include:

A. Use a primer bulb.  

B. Use an electric fuel pump.  

[953 nut 56,091]

I have electric fuel pumps on nearly all of mine and no starting problems.

[JoeB 32]

Wouldnt the primer bulb act like a one way and keep gas in the carb when the engine isnt running. Id like to avoid that since it could mess up the carb.   I think

[ebinmaine 68,742]

44 minutes ago, JoeB said:

Wouldnt the primer bulb act like a one way and keep gas in the carb when the engine isnt running. Id like to avoid that since it could mess up the carb.   I think

 

Use non ethanol gas

[Bar Nuthin 703]

1 hour ago, JoeB said:

Wouldnt the primer bulb act like a one way and keep gas in the carb when the engine isnt running. Id like to avoid that since it could mess up the carb.   I think

 

Where do you think the gas in your carburetor goes now, when you shut the tractor off?

[JoeB 32]

I assumed it drained back to the gas tank which lower than the carb  though i dont have any evidence to support that except after sitting for a while the tractor cranks for a long time before it starts but if it is only a short time it starts right up. Is there another explanation?  My solution so far has been spraying ether on the air filter to provide some starting fuel. 

[Ed Kennell 39,036]

48 minutes ago, JoeB said:

I assumed it drained back to the gas tank which lower than the carb

That is exactly what happens.  Draining the carb is not the problem.   The problem is caused by a small leak in the two check valves in all diaphragm fuel pumps causing the pump to lose it's prime.     The pump requires a lot of cranking to evacuate the air and pull the fuel back to the pump.   

You can install another check valve to prevent the drain back, Install a manual valve that you must remember to open and close, Install a marine primer valve to reprime the pump, or install an electric fuel pump that is located below the fuel tank.  On some model tractors simply keeping the fuel tank full will keep the fuel level above the fuel pump and prevent the prime loss.

 

And yes, all that cranking is killing your battery and STARTER.

Edited December 13, 2024 by Ed Kennell

[Bar Nuthin 703]

59 minutes ago, JoeB said:

 the gas tank which lower than the carb. 

I didn't consider that. I was picturing my own tractor where the tank is above the carburetor. Or at least above the fuel pump.

Edited December 13, 2024 by Bar Nuthin

[JoeB 32]

Am i wrong in thinking thatcwith ethanol in the gas it is better for the carb to not have gas in it when not in use. If i put a shutoff valve just below the carb i can stop by cutting off the fuel rather than cutting off the spark leaving the carb essentially empty.  

[ebinmaine 68,742]

4 hours ago, JoeB said:

Am i wrong in thinking thatcwith ethanol in the gas it is better for the carb to not have gas in it when not in use. If i put a shutoff valve just below the carb i can stop by cutting off the fuel rather than cutting off the spark leaving the carb essentially empty.  

 

 

You're correct about that. But keep note of your phrasing. 

"Essentially empty"

It'll leave a little residual fuel in the bottom of the bowl. 

 

 

Do you have access to NON Ethanol gasoline anywhere near you? 

 

Pure-gas.org

 

 

 

[953 nut 56,091]

8 hours ago, JoeB said:

My solution so far has been spraying ether on the air filter to provide some starting fuel.

Ether starting fluid is very hard on your engine, It shouldn't be used.   To find a gas station that sells non-ethanol gas use this link,  https://www.pure-gas.org/

[SylvanLakeWH 26,101]

Primer bulb on mine for years and use rec fuel. No issues. Cheap fix. Quick starts.

 

 

[Ed Kennell 39,036]

30 minutes ago, SylvanLakeWH said:

Primer bulb on mine for years and use rec fuel. No issues. Cheap fix. Quick starts.

                                                          Agree with Jim.  Primer bulbs work. 

   If I suspect the fuel pump check valves or diaphragms are really leaking bad, I go directly with an e-pump in place of the primer bulb.

 

Draining the carb during normal use (one start per month) is not necessary.

For long term storage there are several thoughts.    One is to drain the entire fuel system, then blow air thru the tank, lines, pump and carb to clear and fuel.

I never drain the fuel systems in my  2 and 4 stroke engines  in outboards, tractors, trimmers, splitters ,etc.      For off season storage, I treat the fuel with Marine Sta-Bil and start and run the engines monthly till they are heated up to operating temp.

[midpack 909]

I just put an electric pump on Mongo. Ran good last winter but this year no fuel. Checked the lines, pulled off the fuel pump and everything looked fine.

I had an extra pump and fuse, just needed a relay to activate the pump. 

Fires right up now!

Poor Mongo, I have an electric lift, electric PTO with a soft start module, and now an electric fuel pump.

Somebody is going to hate me someday for all the extra wiring  but it IS a beast with that Magnum 18

[WHX?? 49,432]

You didn't say what model tractor Joe but all my 520s have this problem and sadly a check valve didn't solve the problem. The only one I have with an electric fuel pump has no problem. Just turn the key and listen for the fuel pump to change pitch and then fires right up.  It's the only way to go. 

[Racinbob 11,278]

 Never had a check valve work. I don't even mess with the original fuel pumps anymore. Quality electrics on the critical machines and I've been using the cheapies on the others. Even though the cheapies are working great I just took delivery of a three fer real cheap just to have spares. 

 

[Ed Kennell 39,036]

Agree E-pumps are the way to.     Only negative..do not let them run dry.

[Achto 27,880]

10 hours ago, JoeB said:

Am i wrong in thinking thatcwith ethanol in the gas it is better for the carb to not have gas in it when not in use. If i put a shutoff valve just below the carb i can stop by cutting off the fuel rather than cutting off the spark leaving the carb essentially empty.  

 

I only use gas that does NOT have corn squeezin's in it. The method you suggest above is how I long term store my tractors, (anything more than 4 months) Large quantities of gas will not go bad as quickly as small quantities. A half gallon of gas in a tank will keep much longer that the few ounces that are in the float bowl.   

[peter lena 8,822]

@JoeB  number of options , everyone looks at this common issue differently , regular fuel hose breaks down  to  ethanol  chemical break down , also debris in tank, never cleaned out , personally like a CARBOLE ELECTRIC FUEL PUMP , 2-3.5 PSI along with a vertical fuel check valve , insuring fuel hold to carb .  drop carb bowl , probably loaded with crud , would also drop tank valve , clean out , personally  like sta bil storage additive in all my fuels , zero debris . you can also change out , rubber fuel hose with a steel brake line , to eliminate the majority of rubber hose . tucks easily into frame inner upper 90 deg bend , simple changes I made years ago eliminated the fuel issue , experiment with what ever you do , major thing is change out what's there , trial test . for me , clean out set up , replace original hose , sta bil in all my gas , no issues . bet tank is loaded with crud , 2 fuel filters , 1 close to tank another close to carb , filters clean / clear , quick starts , pete    

[JoeB 32]

You guys are terrific. Lots of good ideas and wisdom based on experience. Thanks

[ebinmaine 68,742]

6 hours ago, JoeB said:

You guys are terrific. Lots of good ideas and wisdom based on experience. Thanks

 

 

Joe..... REALLY try to get the non ethanol gas. 

Alcohol isn't good for any small engine.  

 

 

[JoeB 32]

I found a local source so i can get some

[ebinmaine 68,742]

1 minute ago, JoeB said:

I found a local source so i can get some

 

We have quite a few engines here on our acreage. 

We keep several dedicated fuel cans for real gas. 

2 or 3 times a year I go fill them.  

 

 

I've stored non e for 6 months or even a year. No issues.  

 

 

 

[Horse Newbie 7,159]

22 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

A. Use a primer bulb

That’s what I used…

problem solved…