Rim is scraping brake assembly

[loudtractor 50]

Hi, I'm getting my dedicated snowblower C121 ready for the next snowstorm, and noticed this odd alignment(?) issue. 

   The inside of the rim, and the tire are running on the brake assembly. The nut that holds the brake assembly "bell housing" put a nice gouge in my freshly painted rim! Plus the tire is rubbing the "bell housing" that the brake band grips.

 

I've not run into this before, and can't find any info on why this could be happening.

 

Everything is stock, as far as I know. Am I missing something obvious? Don't want to put a spacer on the hub, and don't really want to grind anything down. 

I'm flummoxed

[kpinnc 12,358]

You might be able to slip the wheel hub out 1/4 inch on that side. I’ve done that before with no issues. I had a machine that the hub made contact with the tranny, so I moved it out a bit. 

 

In so far as a C121 hydro, I don’t have one with a brake. All of my Sundstrands are hydrogear. 

[wallfish 17,078]

The hub does look tight to the trans case anyway. Move the hub out on the axle a little bit so no spacer or grinding is necessary

[rmaynard 15,580]

Could this be where the contact is made?

 

 

Looks like the brake band is out of alignment. Needs to be loosened and repositioned.

[Handy Don 12,436]

That brake drum looks different from any that I’ve seen. Mine are dished or spoked. I’m wondering if it is on backwards and hence mounted too far away from the transaxle.The rubbing seems to be against the edge of the outer circumference of the drum.

Also you might want to check that the wheel itself is true. Put it on a flat surface and look from the side. Also measure from the lug holes to the flat surface.

[Lee1977 6,774]

Looks like the rim is bent and only hitting on one side. Might try the wheel from the other side and see if it hits the rim.

Edited December 8 by Lee1977

[loudtractor 50]

Thanks for all the great ideas. I've been thinking this over this morning, and I plan to first swap the wheels, in case the rim is, in fact out of round. It does only scrape on half the rim.

   If that doesn't help, I'll move the hub out a tiny bit.

   It just seems odd that there is so little clearance between the brake assembly and the rim\tire. I double checked, and I'm almost positive everything is stock.

   I'll post my findings later on.

Appreciate the input!

   Now, if the doggone insert bearings would show up! They left Grand Rapids Thursday morning and disappeared into the ether. I think the USPS truck must have wiped out in the snow...

Matt

 

[squonk 41,291]

14 hours ago, Handy Don said:

That brake drum looks different from any that I’ve seen. Mine are dished or spoked. I’m wondering if it is on backwards and hence mounted too far away from the transaxle.The rubbing seems to be against the edge of the outer circumference of the drum.

Also you might want to check that the wheel itself is true. Put it on a flat surface and look from the side. Also measure from the lug holes to the flat surface.

That is the style brake on the later Sunstrand Hydro's 

[Lagersolut 669]

Looks like the hub is against the trans case - it's been my experience to always use new set screws when this happens - once the cup is rounded on the dog point screw they quit holding - I don't like using grade 5 - my best results are the hardened black oxide grade 8 from Mcmaster and Carr - I keep a bag in the tool box

[loudtractor 50]

I'll have the hub off in a bit to check it out. Good suggestion on the set screws.

You're so right about the grade 5s

[loudtractor 50]

Got the hub off, and now I see I need a new seal. I'll do both sides, can't hurt. I did order the cup point setscrews from MC. Thanks lagersolut for the tip. 

   I'll move the hub out a tad bit, and with the wheel swap, hopefully I'm back to blowing snow with the rebuilt blower!

[kpinnc 12,358]

On 12/7/2024 at 3:34 PM, loudtractor said:

Don't want to put a spacer on the hub,

I put spacers on everything. Drop down to 1/2 inch wide if I need to, but the studs are worth it. SO much easier to reinstall a wheel if you need to. 
 

[Vintage_Wheel_Horse_Lover 20]

where do you get the spacers like you have  link?

[loudtractor 50]

I'll second that question, it would solve a couple of problems...

[kpinnc 12,358]

Most any search for “5 on 4.5 spacers” will have several returns. Stay away from hub centric. You can get 1/2 inch up to 3 inch widths, but pay attention to wheel spacing with mower decks. It’s about the only thing that you can mess up using them. 
 

If you use spacers, you will have to ream your lug holes to 1/2 inch. This removes only 1/16, so the wheels work fine with regular lugs if you decide to go back to them. 
 

Amazon typically has lower prices. eBay sometimes. I probably wouldn’t use either place for use on a vehicle, but a 500lb tractor won’t break them. 
 

You will also need some 7/16 bolts and lug nuts to attach to the hub. Another option is the lug bolt style in the pic below. They aren’t cheap, but are simpler. Factory wheel horse bolts tend to have too large a head to work with spacers. 

Edited December 10 by kpinnc

[loudtractor 50]

That is great information! I would never have thought of that approach. I'm looking into it tonight 

Thanks for a great reply!

[Lee1977 6,774]

I use wheel spacer made for a Jeep that have 82 mm center hole to clear the 3 1/4" raised place on the Wheel Horse hub.

There are a lot of 5 x4.5 spacer that won't work because the center hole is to small.

Edited December 10 by Lee1977

[loudtractor 50]

Thanks for the info, I was looking at several of the spacers, and was getting a bit confused. Now I know what to look for.

[kpinnc 12,358]

4 hours ago, Lee1977 said:

 

I use wheel spacer made for a Jeep that have 82 mm center hole to clear the 3 1/4" raised place on the Wheel Horse hub.

 

Good catch Don! I forgot that. 

[loudtractor 50]

Well, I finally got everything together! Ended up using the spacers, after taking into account the extra width of the chains. No way would this have worked otherwise. 7\16 20x 1 1\4 bolts worked for attaching the spacers to the hubs. Then, I found short lug nuts that fit inside the spacers.

   I did drill, lightly, the rims to accommodate the 1\2" studs on the spacers.

   Now, I just need a snowstorm!

Oh, and I found an Original cab, which I will pick up tomorrow, along with a 312 tractor, tiller, deck, and another blower, and leaf blower, probably from a vac system.

  It's been a fun project, and I thank all of you for the tips!

[kpinnc 12,358]

6 hours ago, loudtractor said:

7\16 20x 1 1\4 bolts worked for attaching the spacers to the hubs. Then, I found short lug nuts that fit inside the spacers.

   I did drill, lightly, the rims to accommodate the 1\2" studs on the spacers.

Now you will find yourself doing this mod to any Wheel Horse you have or may get. Studs on the wheels makes life sooooo much easier if you have to take a wheel off and put it back on! 

[loudtractor 50]

Yup. I really like how this worked out. Plus, it looks cool with the wider stance!

[WHX?? 49,130]

Little late to the party. Looks like the same spacers I used. Got mine off fleablay for what this tight wad thought was a good price. 15 a piece ... That was back in 2020 tho.

Fit the centers perfect and doesn't hurt the rim to open the holes a little. Regular studs hold find if returning to stock. 

On the hubs I always add a nylon thrust washer if the hub is off. Spaces the hub out abit and possibly protects the seal a little. 

 

Really nice lookin C there Loud ...