Charging issue?

[RJR49 129]

The battery in my 1975 C-160 died today after the tractor ran for an hour sucking up leaves, and being stopped and restarted several times. Not totally unexpected since the battery is several years old. But, seemed odd if it was being charged while running. I put the charger on it for an hour and it fired right up.  Before I shut it down I checked the voltage. 13-14 on my multimeter.  So far so good but when I shut it down the voltage remained 13-14. Apparently my multimeter isn't perfect. My electrical system is points and plugs but no generator. Unfortunately,  I don't know anything about magnetoe charging systems. What should I be looking for? I'm thinking that a diode must be blown but I have no real idea

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,121]

Check battery voltage.

Start engine and if voltage increases it is charging.

[RJR49 129]

I'll do that but. At least in cars, the charging voltage is 14 Volts so with the vehicle off the voltage drops to 12 volts if fully charged. I was expecting a voltage drop when I shut my tractor down but didn't get it. Do magneto systems put out 14 volts?

[RJR49 129]

I just Googled the problem and it was suggested that the voltage regulator might be the problem

[ebinmaine 68,742]

3 hours ago, RJR49 said:

I just Googled the problem and it was suggested that the voltage regulator might be the problem

 

First things first. 

 

Check and clean all GROUNDS. 

 

Also try jumping your ammeter.  That could be a fault.  

 

These are DC systems. 

Direct Current.  

No ground equals no circuit. 

 

 

[953 nut 56,091]

[rmaynard 15,706]

The C-160 is a battery ignition, not a magneto. There is a stator (alternator) under the flywheel that produces 35 to 40 volts AC when the engine is running. It goes to the regulator/rectifier to be converted to DC voltage to charge the battery. All tests need to be done with the battery installed as the battery is part of the electrical system. As has been previously stated, be sure all of your grounds are good, battery to engine/frame, rectifier to frame. A charged battery should read about 12.5 volts. When running at full throttle, the voltage across the battery should be +/- 13.5 to 14.5 volts DC. My opinion is that you may have a bad regulator/rectifier. On the other hand, a bad/weak battery will also give you the same problems.

 

This is a cleaned up diagram of a 1975 C-160 battery charging only.

 

Edited December 4, 2024 by rmaynard

[Handy Don 12,568]

4 hours ago, rmaynard said:

My opinion is that you may have a bad regulator/rectifier. On the other hand, a bad/weak battery will also give you the same problems.

 

 

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,121]

When testing a charging system a good reliable and fully charged battery is essential. When not up to full spec the test results can make no sense at all.

Even if you have to disconnect the tractor battery and use booster cables to your daily driver.

[Bar Nuthin 703]

I had the opposite problem on my C-120. The rectifier was putting out 17+ volts to a fully charged battery. New rectifier resolved the problem.

[Handy Don 12,568]

1 hour ago, gwest_ca said:

When testing a charging system a good reliable and fully charged battery is essential. When not up to full spec the test results can make no sense at all.

Even if you have to disconnect the tractor battery and use booster cables to your daily driver.

Same advice goes if trying to adjust a voltage regulator. A marginal battery will drive you batty (pun intended) trying to get it right.

[ebinmaine 68,742]

31 minutes ago, Handy Don said:

Same advice goes if trying to adjust a voltage regulator. A marginal battery will drive you batty (pun intended) trying to get it right.

 

Help I DON'T need..... 

 

 🤪 😜 

[rmaynard 15,706]

5 hours ago, Bar Nuthin said:

I had the opposite problem on my C-120. The rectifier was putting out 17+ volts to a fully charged battery. New rectifier resolved the problem.

 

A regulator/rectifier that is improperly grounded can produce higher than normal output voltages. The fact that you removed, then replaced the regulator/rectifier probably fixed your problem by correcting the bad grounding. 

[Bar Nuthin 703]

2 hours ago, rmaynard said:

A regulator/rectifier that is improperly grounded can produce higher than normal output voltages. The fact that you removed, then replaced the regulator/rectifier probably fixed your problem by correcting the bad grounding. 

 

The first advice given was check your battery check your grounds. Did both, I take no one's advice lightly. I'm grateful for all input.

[Lagersolut 687]

2 hours ago, rmaynard said:

A regulator/rectifier that is improperly grounded can produce higher than normal output voltages. The fact that you removed, then replaced the regulator/rectifier probably fixed your problem by correcting the bad grounding. 

 

What are the solutions/options to a bad regulator/rectifier ?  Are there modern solutions or looking for a used part ?

[Bar Nuthin 703]

1 minute ago, Lagersolut said:

 

What are the solutions/options to a bad regulator/rectifier ?  Are there modern solutions or looking for a used part ?

 I Save Tractors dot com sells quality replacements

[BBQVultureWings 111]

These are the products I have used with Great sucess When making Grounding Connections in a Wide variety of applications. I do Not use "dielectric grease". Typically we see the use of these products when (Begrudgingly) using aluminum conductors & or splicing dissimiilar coductors in a repair scenario. I have generally, as a rule used this for Grounding & Bonding Outdoor & Wet location Electrical Equipment. I also put an extremely small dab of it in the threads of the landing lugs of Large Circuit Breakers as it helps prevent stripping them out when torquing them & makes it easier to tighten or lossen them for removal & replacement....  I also use it for my Lawn Equipment that has a battery to start it such as;

Our Very Hip, Slick & Way Cool Little Red Riding Mowers 

AKA  Wheel  Horses 

 Both are cheap & easy to use. They are available on amazon & in most big box home improvement stores. .... So why am I Brininging all this up ....?

Well..... This is the second time in a couple days where we are talking about BAD Grounds.... Using these products when we perform maintenance, install or replace batteries or in this case rectifiers.... Use of this stuff will prevent the loss of grounding connection if we apply it to the clean metal surface & our fasteners. I keep threatening to make a video about this & I guess I should just do it as I have some work to do on my New to Moo-Wah GT2500. So when I return from my sandblasting adventure tonight I will hopefully at least take some pictures & possibly a Video cometh soon. 

Cheers Everyone & Happy Holidays n alll that greetings n salutaions n everyStuff ya say when saying good bye.......

[ebinmaine 68,742]

7 hours ago, Lagersolut said:

 

What are the solutions/options to a bad regulator/rectifier ?  Are there modern solutions or looking for a used part ?

 

I may be a little unconventional here but I'd rather locate a good used one. 

Or even better, NOS. 

 

My experience shows me that many of the 40 to 60 year old parts are of superior quality to the modern (often imported) replacements. 

 

 

7 hours ago, Bar Nuthin said:

 I Save Tractors dot com sells quality replacements

 

I like Norman as a person but I rarely buy from him even though he's right here in Southern Maine.  The pricing is unfortunately not competitive. 

 

Also, we do have our own vendors here on Redsquare. 

I highly recommend K & B Horse Parts,  Brian Badman. @76c12091520h

 

 

[953 nut 56,091]

10 hours ago, Lagersolut said:

 

What are the solutions/options to a bad regulator/rectifier ?  Are there modern solutions or looking for a used part ?

Be sure the regulator you are buying is compatible with your tractor. Later model Magnum Kohlers have the regulator mounted in the engine fan shroud and are cooled by the flywheel fan. They will NOT work with the K Series engines which require a regulator with much larger cooling fins.

 

[rmaynard 15,706]

I used to get replacement regulator/rectifiers from a company called Milford Power, but switched to Amazon. Prices are cheaper, shipping is faster, and returns if necessary are easier. I know that many of the products are not made in the U.S., but many of the OEM products that we buy today come from offshore sources as well.

 

On a side note, many years ago there was a member of RedSquare who attempted an autopsy on a regulator/rectifier. He was quite meticulous, had a lot of pictures, notes, and diagrams, but he never finished his work. But what info he provided, proved to me that the amount of hours you would have to put into dissecting, sourcing parts, and reassembling a regulator/rectifier was just not worth it. Before he even got down to the component level, I had purchased another and moved on.

[953 nut 56,091]

11 hours ago, rmaynard said:

there was a member of RedSquare who attempted an autopsy on a regulator/rectifier

It is a couple of pages shorter than Leo Tolstoy's "War and Piece" but a rather interesting read.  I sure do miss having @Save Old Iron around.

 

[rmaynard 15,706]

Here is a question for anyone on RedSquare.

Did anyone ever meet SOI?

Did anyone ever see a picture of him?

Did anyone ever see a picture of any of his tractors? 

 

[WHX?? 49,431]

Not me Bob but he sure was a electronics guru. Like where he took the cheapy HF battery tender and made it a real one. I could learn a few things from that guy. 

 

I really love that RR autopsy. Like when one was a kid to take things apart just to see how they worked. But dad it was already broke... 

 

Then there was his humor... 

Edited December 7, 2024 by WHX??

[953 nut 56,091]

9 hours ago, rmaynard said:

Here is a question for anyone on RedSquare.

Did anyone ever meet SOI?        NO, but there are many fantastic members here who have contributed a great deal to our collective knowledge that most of us have never met.  I have never met @gwest_ca but certainly am glad to have him as a contributing member. 

Did anyone ever see a picture of him?      NO,   What are you getting at?   Do you think SOI was actually the emergence of AI?

Did anyone ever see a picture of any of his tractors?    NO,   does this mean his posts weren't a worthwhile addition to the site?

 

 

[rmaynard 15,706]

I may have opened a can of worms with this. I never denied that he presented himself as an electronic wizard. I had a gripe with him very early on, and if you would like to hear about it, let's take it off the forum and PM me directly. 

Edited December 7, 2024 by rmaynard