C160 headlight issue…

[fourwheelhorseman 298]

Ok, so I have a C160, I was running a wire to the headlights from the factory switch, the factory switch works perfect, I have power to it and past it to the headlight sockets. Any how I installed bulbs, nothing.. so I traced my hot wire.. still getting power to

the headlight bulbs, and even the brass part of the bulbs are showing hot.. but thier not lighting.. then I made an unusual discovery, the bezel or bracket the houses the headlights is showing power with my test

light.. I have a fuse between my bulbs and switch and it hasn’t popped wilhich is really making me scratch my head as well! The bracket is pop riveted to the hood from the factory, the wires are factory, well at least coming out of the sockets, the bulbs are the correct style, as far as I can tell..here are some pictures for you guys to mow over..

[ebinmaine 67,766]

Following with interest.  

[fourwheelhorseman 298]

[ri702bill 8,387]

Hmmm... Single (hot) wire to each. NO visible ground wire. You cannot rely on the Sheetmetal & hinge to do that job....

[fourwheelhorseman 298]

That’s exactly how it came from the factory and I have three others the exact same way.. I just can’t for the life of me figure out why the headlight bracket is showing hot?

[Bar Nuthin 278]

23 minutes ago, fourwheelhorseman said:

That’s exactly how it came from the factory and I have three others the exact same way.. I just can’t for the life of me figure out why the headlight bracket is showing hot?

Assuming you're using 1156 bulbs, I'm guessing that one (or both) sockets are faulty. It should require a bulb to complete the circuit. If you can remove the bulbs and still have voltage through the housing, the sockets need cleaned or replaced.

 

27 minutes ago, ri702bill said:

Hmmm... Single (hot) wire to each. NO visible ground wire. You cannot rely on the Sheetmetal & hinge to do that job....

My lights function flawlessly with no additional grounding. I could see it being an issue though, especially if you've done any repainting or use nylon bushings for the hinge rod.

Edited Monday at 12:33 AM by Bar Nuthin

[fourwheelhorseman 298]

12 minutes ago, Bar Nuthin said:

Assuming you're using 1156 style bulbs, I'm guessing that one (or both) sockets are faulty. It should require a bulb to complete the circuit. If you can remove the bulbs and still have voltage through the housing, the sockets need cleaned or replaced.

 

My lights function flawlessly with no additional grounding. I could see it being an issue though, especially if you've done any repainting or use nylon bushings for the hinge rod.

The only time there is power going to the bracket is when the bulbs are in place, if I pull the bulbs then there isn’t 

power showing to the bracket and the inside connecting wires are powered like they should be , install the bulbs and the bracket lights up..I’m stumped, this is a very simple system, the only thing I can come up with is maybe I have the wrong bulbs? 
These use the hood hinge as a ground, the bracket is also a grounding point for the bulb, there are no bare wires touching the inside of the socket, I’m a little baffled. I’m going to sleep on it and look again tomorrow.

[Bar Nuthin 278]

5 minutes ago, fourwheelhorseman said:

the only thing I can come up with is maybe I have the wrong bulbs? 

It requires single pole 1156 bulbs. 1157 bulbs might cause what you're describing, don't know. 

Edited Monday at 12:46 AM by Bar Nuthin

[ebinmaine 67,766]

11 minutes ago, fourwheelhorseman said:

I’m going to sleep on it ......

 

I like my tractors quite a lot but a mattress is more comfortable..............

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[fourwheelhorseman 298]

I’m sorry, I don’t know my bulb numbers, these are single pole I’m using, I’ll buy new ones tomorrow and give it a shot. 
so my understanding of the single pole bulb is this; the bottom of the bulb, ( single pole) is made of lead, that leads makes contact with the brass wire contact and then the outside of the bulb body, which is also brass, makes contact with the housing, the housing is grounded and that’s what completes the circuit.. is that correct?

[ebinmaine 67,766]

3 minutes ago, fourwheelhorseman said:

I’m sorry, I don’t know my bulb numbers, these are single pole I’m using, I’ll buy new ones tomorrow and give it a shot. 
so my understanding of the single pole bulb is this; the bottom of the bulb, ( single pole) is made of lead, that leads makes contact with the brass wire contact and then the outside of the bulb body, which is also brass, makes contact with the housing, the housing is grounded and that’s what completes the circuit.. is that correct?

 

If the bulb is working correctly.  Yes.  

 

 

[Howie 892]

I think it is a grounding issue. Everything is worn now including the hood hinge more than likely.

My Raider 12 the lights would go on and off as the hood moved some even though I rebushed 

for the pin. Ran a ground wire even thou it did not originally have one. Had also refurbished the 

light sockets.

 

 

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,070]

Normal operation if the bulbs are good and poor ground.

Do the reverse. Connect your test light to the battery (+) and probe the headlamp housing. No light so poor ground.

[Ed Kennell 38,329]

33 minutes ago, gwest_ca said:

Normal operation if the bulbs are good and poor ground.

 

                               Connect a jumper from the bulb bracket to the battery negative to complete the circuit.

[BBQVultureWings 104]

 Firstly, I Do Not Know Everything nor do I thiMk I do. Without being all  Sockingly  'esoteric' on everybody here I will say for the ones who Know (such as other electricians), when it comes to applying the National  Electrical Code & the Terms used within it such as; "Grounded, Solidly Grounded, Grounding, Bonded, Bonding, Bonding Jumper, Equipment Ground, Grounding Electrode, Grounding Electrode Conductor & Ground wire" Which mean Several Entirely different things when applying the Code to wiring our homes & other things & the whole Darn thang is written in 'Leagal-eez'   For the Sake of simplicity I will be using the above mentioned terms interchangeably here as they essentially mean the same thing in this very simple example on a very Cool  Little  Red  Riding  Mower  operating with a 12 Volt DC System

  To Moo-Wah....this absolutely Samcks of a Bad Ground ...... Solution; Run a suplimental Grounding wire. Best & Simplest explanatory example I can provide is; Trailer lights (Suffering from Poor Grounding or no ground) will go 1 out 1 bright when the brakes are applied because it is "searching" for a path to ground & going back through the other Screwshell for the lamp as well as the multiple 'resistors' or elements in the other lamp acting as a resistor.. I know this certainly can be a real  headscratcher  for just about anyone who is Not "Schooled/Trained/Heavily Experienced" in Electricial trouble shooting (at a professional Level) Or Very Well versed in Electrical Theory. As for the mention of the fuse Not blowing, that is for a few reasons; 1, there is No short within this circuit & 2, Poor Grounding, yes the lightbulb(s) is/are a resistive load but not large enough to draw sufficient current for the fuse to blow & again poor grounding...  A Solidly Grouned Sytem will absolutely Blow a Fuse IF there is a short or you introduce a resistive load larger than the fuse is rated for. 1 of the 6 reasons we want a Solidly Grounded system is so that the Overcurrent Device (in this case a fuse) will operate.....I did 25+ years in Electrical Contracting & have worked on a wide variety of different systems including DC Battery Back up systems & a few "itty bitty" DC Motors. Direcct Current can do some  Frustratingly  "Weird Stuff" & leave us wondering   ..... Once I understood it Thoroughly, it was not a big mystery anymore. Even to this day, I still have to stop & tell myself to start over with the Basics & eventually the answer cometh. It took Several Years for me to Absorb the knowledge & experience I have. For quite some time in the beginning of  my apprenticeship, after a while,I knew what I was doing but Not Why I was doing it. Puting those things together come from good leadership by Good Journeymen & Good training/Schooling, Lots of Studying & asking questions.

I hope that Helps & that I haven't Nerded anyone's eyeballs out to awful bad tonight....

 

This episode of  Soap  Box  Blabbery  was brought to you today by the Letters G & E for Ground or as the Brits say; (& even our current National Electrical Code books are pushing the term)  "Earth" 

G.E. also stands for Generally Expensive..... That is why I do not purchase their appliances anymore because in comparison to others the repair parts are in fact Generally Expensive...... but so is my newly founded Wheel Horse Habbit......

Edited Monday at 06:16 AM by BBQVultureWings
I forgot something.....

[ebinmaine 67,766]

3 hours ago, BBQVultureWings said:

As for the mention of the fuse Not blowing, that is for a few reasons; 1, there is No short within this circuit & 2, Poor Grounding, yes the lightbulb(s) is/are a resistive load but not large enough to draw sufficient current for the fuse to blow & again poor grounding...  A Solidly Grouned Sytem will absolutely Blow a Fuse IF there is a short or you introduce a resistive load larger than the fuse is rated for

 

 

Now there's an interesting explanation 🤔  

Nicely done. 

 

7 hours ago, gwest_ca said:

Normal operation if the bulbs are good and poor ground.

Do the reverse. Connect your test light to the battery (+) and probe the headlamp housing. No light so poor ground.

 

Gotta remember that one...

 

 

 

 

And now you folks can see a little more of why I most often remove the ENTIRE wiring harness and start right over.  

Ground. Every. Circuit.  

 

[squonk 41,171]

GROUND!!!

 

 The reason your test light comes on when you touch the bezel is it's picking up the " potential voltage" to ground. The reason the bulbs sockets are getting hot is you have all that potential voltage trying to get to ground and only a minute amount is getting through. I bet if you tried it in pitch dark you would see a faint glow from the bulb filament. All of those little voltage.cooties are piling up in the bulb and can't get out.

Edited Monday at 11:37 AM by squonk

[953 nut 55,393]

[Bar Nuthin 278]

Electrical for 400, please.

Edited Monday at 12:30 PM by Bar Nuthin

[Ed Kennell 38,329]

13 hours ago, fourwheelhorseman said:

 I just can’t for the life of me figure out why the headlight bracket is showing hot?

This may just make it more confusing, but it works for me.

 

I use hydraulics to understand electricity.

 

Electricity                                                       Hydraulics

battery    +                                                       pump  outlet

battery   -                                                         pump inlet

voltage                                                            pressure

amperage                                                        flow

ohms                                                                pipe friction

wire                                                                  pipe

switch                                                               valve

 

Easy to see you will see pressure(voltage) but will not have flow(amperage) until you complete the loop back to the pump inlet(battery ground).

 

The flow thru the restrictive bulb filament causes the friction that heats the filament causing it to glow.      No flow=no glow.

 

 

 

Edited Monday at 02:08 PM by Ed Kennell

[Lane Ranger 10,974]

I would check the bottom round tab  ( or Pig Tails as they are called) in the light socket to see if it has flattened out and spread to the light bucket or touching it.  

 

I usually change the inner of the light socket when I get a new tractor with that type front light.   

 

They wires are old, and often the inside is corroded or very worn.

 

 

[fourwheelhorseman 298]

Guess what guys? I now have lights!! It was indeed a ground issue..I grounded the hood and oddly enough they still didn’t work, I then messed around testing the light bucket itself.. it did not show a ground, so then I installed one bezel screw ( without the bezel) and one light worked.. I then reinstalled the entire bezel and both lights work now, the screws are going through the bucket and giving the needed ground. I didn’t want to drill out the factory rivets and clean up around the

where the bezel sits in the hood, but I may have to. For now they work great.. well … not great but as great as the factory lights work! Thanks to all you guys for your much valued input! Sqonk hit the nail on the head, I also think ebmaine did as well in a text that he sent me. This site is an awsome resource! 

[953 nut 55,393]

[fourwheelhorseman 298]

11 hours ago, Lane Ranger said:

I would check the bottom round tab  ( or Pig Tails as they are called) in the light socket to see if it has flattened out and spread to the light bucket or touching it.  

 

I usually change the inner of the light socket when I get a new tractor with that type front light.   

 

They wires are old, and often the inside is corroded or very worn.

 

 

I did have to make up a wire for the right headlight, although I’ve never made that brown insulator, the one that looks like petrified cardboard .. lol .. what would you make that out of? Thanks again for everyone’s input

[Racinbob 11,115]

Go to NAPA and get a couple of new headlight socket innards. Less than 4 bucks. Always jumper the hood hinge.