Electrical help on the C-161 restoration!

[TonyToro Jr. 1,475]

Hello all,

Getting close to the finishing stages with the restoration of Mr.Kellys tractor.

So close I went to go and fire it up today and nothing. No click no nothing. Took the plug off for the ignition switch and not getting any voltage to that. Checked main fuse, good. Rain a wire ground from the battery I think to the rectifier. Still nothing. Thoughts suggestions help?

Thanks!

 

[squonk 41,171]

Does this tractor have an ammeter? If it does, check connections at the meter. It has happened more than once that a connection was lost there or the meter failed.

 

(C160 wire diagram. Similar set up)

 

Edited November 25 by squonk

[TonyToro Jr. 1,475]

1 minute ago, squonk said:

Does this tractor have an ammeter? If it does, check connections at the meter. It has happened more than once that a connection was lost there or the meter failed.

Yes it does. But isn’t currently hooked up. Would that matter?

[squonk 41,171]

Just now, TonyToro Jr. said:

Yes it does. But isn’t currently hooked up. Would that matter?

YES! 

[TonyToro Jr. 1,475]

Also want to add was getting a little voltage to the ignition switch it was about 45 milli volts.

[TonyToro Jr. 1,475]

2 minutes ago, squonk said:

YES! 

Thanks! Will try that next,

[squonk 41,171]

18 minutes ago, TonyToro Jr. said:

Thanks! Will try that next,

Look at the diagram in my first response. Battery power comes from the solenoid post the positive lead is on and travels thru the ammeter to the switch. Your fuse is probably on the solenoid side of this feed. With the ammeter unhooked the voltage wouldn't reach the switch unless you bypass the ammeter. The millivolts your seeing is probably ghost voltage from a sensitive meter. 

[953 nut 55,393]

Have you had the battery load tested?

Have you used jumper cables from another car or Wheel Horse?

Have al the connections been cleaned and tightened?

Is the PTO in the OFF position?

Did you have your foot pushing the clutch all the way down?

Is the solenoid grounded?  see picture below

 

[TonyToro Jr. 1,475]

1 hour ago, squonk said:

Look at the diagram in my first response. Battery power comes from the solenoid post the positive lead is on and travels thru the ammeter to the switch. Your fuse is probably on the solenoid side of this feed. With the ammeter unhooked the voltage wouldn't reach the switch unless you bypass the ammeter. The millivolts your seeing is probably ghost voltage from a sensitive meter. 

Thanks for the help! Will try it out tommorow and will get back to you.

[TonyToro Jr. 1,475]

32 minutes ago, 953 nut said:

Have you had the battery load tested?

Have you used jumper cables from another car or Wheel Horse?

Have al the connections been cleaned and tightened?

Is the PTO in the OFF position?

Did you have your foot pushing the clutch all the way down?

Is the solenoid grounded?  see picture below

 

Yes all the above is done. Battery is brand new as of yesterday. Interstate battery showing 12.36 volts.

[Tonytoro416 1,034]

2 hours ago, squonk said:

Look at the diagram in my first response. Battery power comes from the solenoid post the positive lead is on and travels thru the ammeter to the switch. Your fuse is probably on the solenoid side of this feed. With the ammeter unhooked the voltage wouldn't reach the switch unless you bypass the ammeter. The millivolts your seeing is probably ghost voltage from a sensitive meter. 

Right here 👆. Millivolts I rarely take as getting anything really.  It’s not enough to do anything in a 12volt system.  Basically zero in my mind.  

[953 nut 55,393]

13 hours ago, TonyToro Jr. said:

Took the plug off for the ignition switch and not getting any voltage to that. Checked main fuse, good. Rain a wire ground from the battery I think to the rectifier. Still nothing.     The rectifier has nothing to do with starting, it just provides power to recharge the battery after the engine is running.

With the ignition switch plug disconnected use a volt meter to check for voltage starting at the battery working toward the ignition switch.

Check both ends of the large cable from the battery to solenoid.

Check for voltage to the fuse holder from the solenoid.

Check for voltage coming from the fuse holder to the amp meter.

Check for voltage from the amp meter to the start terminal of the ignition switch plug.

Let us know what you find.

 

[TonyToro Jr. 1,475]

Do you think this wiring diagram would be the same even though this is a twin with electric ignition?

[TonyToro Jr. 1,475]

Working on the tractor right now. Hooked up amp meter and now getting power (12.66) volts to the ignition switch. Now getting 12.64 volts out of the ignition switch going to I guess some sort of rectifier. And if a wiggle the wires a bit the solenoid starts buzzing. Help?

[TonyToro Jr. 1,475]

Doing some more testing. When solenoid is buzzing I got voltage going too it and making it buzz, but I don’t think anything is coming out.

[953 nut 55,393]

11 hours ago, TonyToro Jr. said:

electric ignition?

Is the engine a Magnum Twin or a K twin with an ignition coil.        

2 hours ago, TonyToro Jr. said:

if a wiggle the wires a bit the solenoid starts buzzing.

Is the solenoid well grounded?

Make sure the transmission is in neutral.  Use a small jumper wire from the battery side BIG terminal of the solenoid to the small terminal of the solenoid that goes to the ignition switch, the solenoid should close and turn over the starter.

 

[TonyToro Jr. 1,475]

2 minutes ago, 953 nut said:

Is the engine a Magnum Twin or a K twin with an ignition coil.        

Is the solenoid well grounded?

Make sure the transmission is in neutral.  Use a small jumper wire from the battery side BIG terminal of the solenoid to the small terminal of the solenoid that goes to the ignition switch, the solenoid should close and turn over the starter.

 

The engine is a Briggs ic 16 opposed twin. It’s a c-161 twin. I think the solenoid is well grounded. I have all 4 bolts holding on the plate and the 2 bolts securing the solenoid to the plate. The funny thing also is if my dad hits it it stops buzzing.

[squonk 41,171]

12 hours ago, 953 nut said:

With the ignition switch plug disconnected use a volt meter to check for voltage starting at the battery working toward the ignition switch.

Check both ends of the large cable from the battery to solenoid.

Check for voltage to the fuse holder from the solenoid.

Check for voltage coming from the fuse holder to the amp meter.

Check for voltage from the amp meter to the start terminal of the ignition switch plug.

Let us know what you find.

 

Richard. Do you have a link to the older demistify guide. All I can find goes back to only 85

[953 nut 55,393]

10 minutes ago, TonyToro Jr. said:

Briggs ic 16 opposed twin. It’s a c-161 twin.

C-161 came with Kohler and Briggs engines, here is the wiring diagram for the Briggs equipped C-161.

 

The kill relay for the magneto ignition is the major difference in the wiring and has NOTHING to do with the start5 function, it just grounds the ignition if the key is turned off or the PTO is on without someone in the seat. This may be what you have been calling a rectifier.   Take another picture of the area where the solenoid is located with better lighting so we can make out what you are looking at.

Just for your information the voltage regulator on a Briggs is under the engine cover and looks like this.

 

[TonyToro Jr. 1,475]

Also, when I installed the engine with the new shaker mounts from Zach kerber there was a wire from the shaker mount bolt to directly to the shaker plate. Didn’t install it. Would it make a difference?

[953 nut 55,393]

3 minutes ago, squonk said:

Richard. Do you have a link to the older demistify guide. All I can find goes back to only 85

No I don't, this is listed with the owner manual wiring and was colored by Gary.

[TonyToro Jr. 1,475]

4 minutes ago, 953 nut said:

   Take another picture of the area where the solenoid is located with better lighting so we can make out what

Edited November 27 by TonyToro Jr.

[TonyToro Jr. 1,475]

Just now, TonyToro Jr. said:

 

Will do! I will in the morning, garage doesn’t have very good lights.

[953 nut 55,393]

Just now, TonyToro Jr. said:

Also, when I installed the engine with the new shaker mounts from Zach kerber there was a wire from the shaker mount bolt to directly to the shaker plate. Didn’t install it. Would it make a difference?

Without a ground electricity WILL NOT FLOW!       If your battery is grounded to the engine the wire supplied with the mounts HAS TO BE CONNECTED from the engine plate to the frame.

 

[TonyToro Jr. 1,475]

Just now, 953 nut said:

Without a ground electricity WILL NOT FLOW!       If your battery is grounded to the engine the wire supplied with the mounts HAS TO BE CONNECTED from the engine plate to the frame.

 

Will do that tommorow also! Have a half day of school (Yay!) so will be working on it all afternoon. And have the rest of week off for thanksgiving so will be working on it a lot! Hopefully will be driving by Saturday 🤞