312-8 does a wheelie everytime I let out the clutch

[rmaynard 15,912]

I am 74 and have driven vehicles with a clutch all my life. However, there are those who have only driven automatics. Many of them have a difficult time getting the feel of "clutching". It's not a matter of just taking you foot off the pedal and expecting the tractor to start to move smoothly. Feathering the clutch is a learned technique. 

Having said that, clean pulleys and a proper belt, along with proper adjustments, make all the difference in the world.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 23, 2024 by rmaynard
spelling

[oliver2-44 10,353]

@Alrashid2

One more thought!

You could move your storage box to the front for some weight, 

That will also keep the rear free for your fire wood trailer.

[My_horse 6]

I had the exact same thing when I got my 314-8, although I never put in 3rd and let clutch out at full throttle. I usually engage 3rd at low rpm, then run the throttle up. 
 

I did end up getting a set of front wheel weights back when I first started mowing with it. Definitely helped keep the nose down if I popped the clutch too hard. 
 

then my gas damper failed and the I had to pull up on the clutch to get it to go. Fixed that with the factory clutch return spring that mine didn’t have. 

[Alrashid2 382]

Thanks all for weighing in your valuable opinions/advice! I don't have a stick car anymore, but drove stickshift for years and years. I guess what I find hard about "feathering" the clutch on this damn tractor is the fact that, when the pedal is at the point between being disengaged and engaging, the pedal is nearly vertical. That's a hard angle my foot to even be at. I'm used to in a car, where the clutch would engage with the pedal at something like 45 degrees, not 0 degrees. Makes it so my foot has to be floating when using the clutch pedal, as I can't pivot my ankle that steep of an angle!

 

I have adjusted the clutch pedal as far as I can to lessen that angel but still it's just too much. 

 

I did buy a new belt today. Won't have time until next week to swap but will report back then!

Edited November 25, 2024 by Alrashid2
Photo

[Ed Kennell 40,455]

36 minutes ago, Alrashid2 said:

 

I have adjusted the clutch pedal as far as I can to lessen that angel but still it's just too much. 

Might help to move the seat back a couple inches.

[Alrashid2 382]

Fingers crossed it works out. Probably won't be able to do the install until late next week...

I am still a bit confused on why the side panel (belt guard) is necessary though? I ran mine just fine without it for a few minutes when I was testing things out, before I realized it was more than just a cover. Shifted and ran fine without it. What does the panel do exactly?

[Ed Kennell 40,455]

7 minutes ago, Alrashid2 said:

What does the panel do exactly?

The bottom lip on the guard supports the loose belt and helps to prevent the belt from sagging and making contact with the engine drive pulley,

In an effort to stop belt movement, Wheel Horse also added belt keepers around the engine pulley.    

If your tractor has a belt brake tab as shown in my video, the belt is stopped without the belt guard in place.

 

[Alrashid2 382]

thanks for explaining Ed. I think I do have that belt brake tab,yes 

[Alrashid2 382]

Update, boys!!

 

I finally installed the new Blue TSC belt. Wow, that was actually more difficult than I thought it'd be. Had to bend the little guard on the clutch pulley that was pretty thick steel. Just squeaked the old belt through with a bit of oil to help lubricate it through the gap. The PTO housing was tough too - had to bed a guard, remove the PTO brake assembly, and even then the belt barely shimmied through. Then when I thought I was done, I saw the belt goes around the bar that holds the foot rest - ha! So had to remove that too. 

 

New belt on and everything put back together, and I have great news: this totally solved my problem!!

 

Not only is it much easier to engage the clutch now, but it even changed where the clutch pedal engages! If you remember before, I mentioned how I'd push the pedal down to disengage, and the clutch wouldn't engage again until the pedal was almost completely vertical. This made it really hard to let off easy and I'd buck the whole tractor. Now, push the pedal all the way down, and it only takes me letting off maybe an inch of travel and the belt engages! @Ed Kennell it now behaves exactly how your video showed, which is awesome. Thanks again for sharing that with me. I did notice that removing the belt, the belt slipped right off the pulleys, but installing the new belt, it was much harder to get it onto the last pulley - think this means it is slightly tighter/smaller. 

 

I can also now easily allow the belt to slip as I release, which slowly puts me into motion instead of going from 0 to 100. Facing uphill, here and there I am still getting the slightest "buck" when in 3rd gear High, but I think that is inevitable without weight up front and probably will lessen as I get used to how to shift this thing correctly now. 

 

I will say, even with ear plugs in, as I was slipping the belt, I could even hear it for a second or two slipping/squealing. Is that normal? Maybe it's just because it's a new belt, or maybe it's normal to also hear the belt slipping... could have sworn at one point I could smell burning rubber but not entirely sure. 

 

Thanks guys for your help here! Feels great to finally get a win!! 

[Ed Kennell 40,455]

21 minutes ago, Alrashid2 said:

Feels great to finally get a win!!

Thanks for the great news.    We luv it when a plan comes together.

[Alrashid2 382]

Thank you sir @Ed Kennell 

Can I ask you, is it normal to hear the belt squeal a second when letting the belt slip?

[Ed Kennell 40,455]

4 minutes ago, Alrashid2 said:

Thank you sir @Ed Kennell 

Can I ask you, is it normal to hear the belt squeal a second when letting the belt slip?

My 310-8 squeals a bit as I start to engage the clutch but stops as soon as it is fully engaged.

[Alrashid2 382]

Mine does the same Thank you sir, and thank you all for your help!

[peter lena 9,086]

@Alrashid2  letting out the clutch at  35 hundred  that I  personally would not do , especially  things to smoothly transition  in to forward motion . belt condition looks very good , their has to be another problem in the line of power transmission . ever use lo range / hi gear ?  as a  alternate  for forward motion  ?  keep thinking about that  very violent  sudden impact , on   entire set up , front end has to be battered  , wheel bearings spindles , moved a lot of heavy wood with lo range / hi gear , no wheelies , that consistent  violent start is , also telling you of some some sudden release of  traction motion . been doing this for decades now , without doing any of that ,  have any neighbors  that have small , yard tractors ?  advise ?  pete  

[Alrashid2 382]

Hey guys. Was doing a once over on the horse and noticed a ton of blue dust stuck to engine near the crank pulley... That normal for a new belt?

[Bar Nuthin 935]

11 minutes ago, Alrashid2 said:

Hey guys. Was doing a once over on the horse and noticed a ton of blue dust stuck to engine near the crank pulley... That normal for a new belt?

 

Mostly likely the belt sizing is off, or your belt guard is improperly installed.

Edited December 17, 2024 by Bar Nuthin

[Alrashid2 382]

Hmm. Belt was a hair tighter than the original but not by much at all. Remind me what the belt guard is? The belt itself looks in good shape - no rips or tears 

Edited December 17, 2024 by Alrashid2

[Bar Nuthin 935]

7 minutes ago, Alrashid2 said:

Hmm. Belt was a hair tighter than the original but not by much at all. Remind me what the belt guard is? The belt itself looks in good shape - no rips or tears 

 

The guard that covers the belt  X you had to take it off to change the belt

Edited December 17, 2024 by Bar Nuthin

[Alrashid2 382]

Ok thanks that is what I was thinking. Belt guard seems fine looking at it now?

 

The dust is only on the engine block above the crank pulley - sticking to some oily spots there.

 

I was thinking that maybe this was normal since that is where the belt slips when engaging clutch? Maybe I didn't notice before because my old belt was black? No dust anywhere else, including the belt guard 

[Ed Kennell 40,455]

in your picture, it appears your belt is rubbing on the bottom of the belt guard.   Is there an oversize pulley on transmission causing the lower loop of the belt to be lower than normal?

 

 

[Alrashid2 382]

Hmm that's hard to say. I thought the transaxle pulley looked factory? With tractor off the belt is just barely touching that belt guard. It's not right against it but it is definitely rubbing though probably just barely. Should it not be?

 

If there is supposed to be a space there, how much space should there be? Could I just bend my belt guard slightly to create a gap?

 

Edit: wanted to add the photo you were referring to was with old belt so don't think I reinstalled the guard incorrectly 

Edited December 17, 2024 by Alrashid2

[953 nut 57,841]

9 hours ago, Alrashid2 said:

normal since that is where the belt slips when engaging clutch?

I would agree, your belt may be contacting the belt guide (heavy wire guide) that is attached to the engine rubbing on the back side of the belt. That would kick off some dust from a new belt. May need to tweak it a bit to give about 1/8" to 1/4" clearance when the clutch is engaged.

[Alrashid2 382]

11 minutes ago, 953 nut said:

I would agree, your belt may be contacting the belt guide (heavy wire guide) that is attached to the engine rubbing on the back side of the belt. That would kick off some dust from a new belt. May need to tweak it a bit to give about 1/8" to 1/4" clearance when the clutch is engaged.

Thanks for the reply. When I was looking at my engine I saw 2 guides that I think match what you're talking about about. One on top and one on bottom, what looked like thick metal wire. Belt isn't rubbing on either of those...

 

I'm thinking of maybe making this a separate post for visibility and in case someone else wants to search for this in the future

[Ed Kennell 40,455]

I use those TSC green Aramid belts on all my tractors and have never had one throw off green dust like you are seeing.   It must be rubbing something to cause that kind of wear.

Can you tell if the wear is on the back side, the sides, or the inside of the belt.     If on the sides, it could be due to a rough spot in the engine drive pulley.

[Alrashid2 382]

Thanks Ed. Ya this is strange... Im thinking I should pull the belt guard off tonight and check every spot, and post some pictures. But as far as I can tell, nothing rubbing anywhere.

 

Likewise back when I was trying to figure out my last issue, I sanded down all the pulleys. Not super well, but I didn't feel any overly rough spot anywhere. Also the belt itself doesn't look worn in any specific spot, though I didn't think my old one looked work either so...

 

I wonder if it's just the way I'm letting the belt slip? I know when I drove stick shift I was told I was excessive in letting the clutch slip haha. Maybe I'm just letting the clutch slip too much? Just spit balling here...

 

I will also add that I was cleaning the blue dust off the engine block to "reset" and keep an eye out, and it looked like there was a lot of black dust stuck to it too that I just couldn't see before.

 

EDIT: going to make a fresh post since this is a separate issue from the original topic

Edited December 17, 2024 by Alrashid2