Friction disc material cracked/broke out of PTO pulley?

[Alrashid2 171]

Totally jinxed myself yesterday posting here that my tractor work was complete. Ha!

 

Last night I realized that my PTO pulley was spinning, even though PTO lever was off. Currently have nothing hooked up to it. I assumed the brake maybe needed adjusting, so I grabbed my 0.012" feeler gauge and tightened up the brake. Good to go, I thought!

 

Well, I ran the tractor around the property for 15 minutes today. Got done and parked and realized the PTO pulley was blazing hot. Burnt my hand just touching it for a split second. A bit later, blowing leaves in the driveway and found a bunch of friction disc material that looks like a thin rotor. Knew it had to be from the Horse...

 

After putting 2 and 2 together, realized it's part of a disc that looks to go between the PTO pulley and the crankshaft pulley... uh oh!

 

I'm assuming it overheated and just broke apart. Now I've got questions...

 

• I'm assuming the PTO pulley overheated because the brake was now touching more, but not enough to make it stop spinning, and the friction caused overheating? I have since adjusted the pulley brake back to being greater than 0.012" as it was before. 
• Is the pulley supposed to spin when PTO is off, if no belts/attachments are attached?
• What exactly did I break here? Is it hard/expensive to replace?
• I have no current plans to use PTO or that pulley. Not mowing with this tractor. Just plowing and pulling firewood. Do I have to fix this?

 

Thanks guys... ugh!

[Alrashid2 171]

Since posting did some digging. I'm assuming this is part of the Friction Disc? I'm looking at the Parts Diagram and it appears to be 114881...

 

https://www.amazon.com/Ohoho-94-6650-114881-Friction-Compatible/dp/B09BQ41JZB#customerReviews

 

Looks like I can get on Amazon for 38 bucks. Not horrible. But still wondering how difficult this is to repair? And do I even need to? And how do I stop this from happening again!

 

[ebinmaine 67,553]

5 minutes ago, Alrashid2 said:

• Is the pulley supposed to spin when PTO is off, if no belts/attachments are attached?

 

No....  but I don't know if ot really matters much..

 

 

 

5 minutes ago, Alrashid2 said:

• What exactly did I break here? Is it hard/expensive to replace?

 

Very easy to do.  All simple tools.  

 

 

5 minutes ago, Alrashid2 said:

• I have no current plans to use PTO or that pulley. Not mowing with this tractor. Just plowing and pulling firewood. Do I have to fix this?

 

NEED to fix...no.  

But you should just do it to avoid future issues. 

Or...

Remove the whole PTO bell, linkage etc.  

 

 

 

 

1 minute ago, Alrashid2 said:

I can get on Amazon

 

IMHO...

 

 

NEVER EVER get anything on the jungle or fleeebay that you can get freely from one of our own vendors. 

 

Personally... I buy ZERO tractor parts on amazon. None.  

I don't trust the accuracy or longevity of the replacement El cheapo parts.  

 

K & B Horse Parts. 

 

Classified on Redsquare.  

 

A to Z Tractor in PA.  

 

 

[Treepep 564]

PLUS,  you can chat with a real human... That is quite knowledgeable.  Not going to get ANY customer service/advice elsewhere in my humble opinion.

[Alrashid2 171]

I agree with you guys on that. Just can't spend $100 on this component right now. I'll do some research on the sites... Thanks guys.

 

Looks like I found a video at least!

 

 

Any advice guys on how to prevent this from overheating again?

 

 

[TonyToro Jr. 1,440]

I think I would let it spin. All of mine spin and have never had only issues.

[Handy Don 12,233]

5 hours ago, Alrashid2 said:

• Is the pulley supposed to spin when PTO is off, if no belts/attachments are attached?
•  

The idea from WH is that the brake keeps the PTO sheaves/bell from spinning when the PTO is disengaged. The inner needle bearings in the PTO shell then roll around the spinning shaft.

That said, many a PTO brake has been removed altogether and the PTO just spins--in this case, the “throwout” bearing attached to the bail is spinning.

 

So, I agree that spinning and not spinning are both fine, however, in either case, the clutch face and the bell housing should either be completely clear of each other or else snugly in contact to prevent the rubbing friction that caused yours to grenade from overheating. The grunnion on the PTO engagement rod can be moved as needed for this adjustment.

 

Edited November 15 by Handy Don

[ebinmaine 67,553]

2 hours ago, Handy Don said:

spinning and not spinning are both fine

 

I've been known to leave my PTO engaged simply because the lever is out of the way of my right knee.  

 

 

[953 nut 55,280]

19 hours ago, Alrashid2 said:

do I even need to? And how do I stop this from happening again

If you aren't going to use the PTO to mow, snow blow or rototill then you could just remove the PTO from the engine. As far as prevention goes you must consider the fact the this is a 40 year old friction disc, nothing lasts forever.

[oliver2-44 9,756]

As other have said you can leave it spinning or just leave the PTO engaged. 

Earlier C-Series didn't even have a PTO Brake.

Before you buy the friction disc, remove the PTO bell for inspection.

You want to look at the PTO Bells' surface that mates with the clutch disc.

When new it was a smooth flat machined surface, but not polished shiny.  

Today I'm sure its not perfectly smooth, but shouldn't  have significant grooves or ridges.

It will be worn shiny like a car brake rotor, but shouldn't have blue spots from heating.

You can put a sheet of wet or dry sandpaper on a flat hard surface to knock the high spots of any ridges or rough spots down a little.   

Start really coarse (100 grit, your TRYING to sand cast steel), then work down to finer grades of sandpaper. 

Now would be a good time to check the bearings. There is the outer roller bearing and inner needle bearing. 

The needle bearing is fairly easy to clean and re-grease. Don't put to much grease or it will sling it everywhere including on the friction disc which needs to stay ungreased.

There is a seal at the clutch disc end of the needle bearing.  Look it over, make sure it doesn't have any tears, rough edges, or hard surface, etc.

The outer roller bearing cannot be re-greased in place.  It is a sealed bearing. 

But after 40 years, as Grease Pete  suggest, you can remove the snap ring, tap it out, gently remove the bearing seal, clean, re-grease, reassemble.  

 

All of the above is probable making your Scientist background analyze just doing away with the PTO.  You shouldn't have told us!

 

If you do away with the PTO bell, there will be a smooth polished surface on the shaft where it rode. 

If you think you might want to use a PTO someday, clean that and protect it from rusting.  Maybe even wrap it with duct tape, poor mans rust preventative and protector. 

Every decision has a Cause and Effect.  

 

[Wayne0 457]

4 hours ago, oliver2-44 said:

If you think you might want to use a PTO someday, clean that and protect it from rusting.  Maybe even wrap it with duct tape, poor mans rust preventative and protector. 

Every decision has a Cause and Effect.  

 

Smear it with grease and put it in a big zip lock bag for the future.

[RED-Z06 2,221]

I keep a good spare, they do break, i had one let go a couple years ago, i grabbed a JD clutch lining online, cleaned by bell really well, attached it with jd weld then trimmed the excess.

[Alrashid2 171]

Thank you all for the much needed advice! You got my science-mind reeling now haha... I'll think on it over the weekend. Will report back whether I decide to replace the clutch or just remove the PTO. Thanks all! Appreciate your sage advice

[Wayne0 457]

On 11/16/2024 at 4:30 PM, RED-Z06 said:

I keep a good spare, they do break, i had one let go a couple years ago, i grabbed a JD clutch lining online, cleaned by bell really well, attached it with jd weld then trimmed the excess.

I did exactly the same, only didn't bother trimming it. Works great.

[MainelyWheelhorse 457]

@Alrashid2 I’ve had good luck on Amazon parts so far. I try to find manufacturers that have a ton of 5 star reviews ship through Amazon prime and are known to make good parts. I bought a Caltric starter and a friction disc like what was posted through Toro’s storefront. I have bought some AR Pro 15-6-6 front tires lately that have had good reviews but the jury is still out on longevity. @ebinmaine does make a good point about supporting the vendors on the site though.

And @RED-Z06 makes a good argument for fixing it yourself.

 

I guess it boils down to whatever you want to do there’s a few ways to do it.