Kohler 301 engine always covered in oil

[Alrashid2 171]

Hey guys, curious if I'm being too picky and if this is normal or not.

 

Picked up a 1985 312-8 with the Kohler 301S engine on it. Noticed engine was sludgy looking so I cleaned off with brake cleaner and a good scrub and pressure wash.

 

Couple days and less than an hour run time later and I notice it's sludgy looking again...

 

Can't quite tell where the leak is coming from but it's all over the front of the engine. Looks to be from the carb, to the fuel pump, all the way down to the pan. All seems to be on the front only.

 

No drips or puddles on the ground and dipstick looks spot on, so it's not that bad, but just enough to make the engine grimy.

 

Is this ok to let be, it being an older engine and all? Id rather not tear and rebuild when it otherwise runs perfectly. Anyone ever tried a stop leak?

 

I have 10w30 in it because I'll be using it in temps between 25 and 85 F but I'm wondering if switching back to 30SAE would help at all.

Thanks all!

[kpinnc 12,175]

If you’ve removed the breather for any reason, the reed valve may be backwards. That or the fuel pump gasket is a common place for the engine to leak some. 
 

And no, I doubt SAE30 would make any difference. 

[ebinmaine 67,766]

Several thoughts. 

 

Clean it again and carefully watch the cylinder head gasket area. 

Pretty normal for those to go bad eventually. 

 

I'd seriously consider removing and cleaning your breather as a matter of maintenance. 

Because you'll have to remove the carb you might as well schmooge that out too.  Very easy.  

 

 

 

17 minutes ago, Alrashid2 said:

stop leak?

 

IMHO: 

 

 

DO NOT USE STOP LEAK. 

 

>>>>> EVER <<<<<

 

Find and fix the leak.  Period.  

 

 

 

19 minutes ago, Alrashid2 said:

10w30 in it because I'll be using it in temps between 25 and 85 F but I'm wondering if switching back to 30SAE

 

I don't have a manual for your model handy.

I'd defer to that. 

 

That said.....

Trina's mid 60s 8 HP Kohlers like HD30 all year. 

 

My mid 70s 16 HP Kohlers do NOT like to start below about 20⁰ unless I change to 10W30.  

 

 

 

[kpinnc 12,175]

1 minute ago, ebinmaine said:

DO NOT USE STOP LEAK. 

[JimSraj 430]

Pictures would help but I’m gonna guess it’s spray from the breather. Clean it up and make sure it’s reed is properly installed. 

[953 nut 55,393]

Remove and clean the internals of your breather. If the filter is oil saturated clean it with mineral spirits and let it dry over night and be sure the louvers of the cover are pointed UP.

 

[squonk 41,171]

How many our on this thing? If high hours I'm guessing breather spray and oil out the governor shaft from over pressurization of the crankcase due to a worn out cylinder and rings.

[Alrashid2 171]

Thanks all for your replies! You guys beat me to asking my next question, which was "What is this square piece on the front of the engine?" because it appears that the oil is coming from that - the breather! I may need to do some more reading, but can I simply remove that breather, clean, and put back together according to the diagram posted above? Want to make sure I'm not pulling something and getting too beyond myself

 

Unfortunately no hour meter on this one so no idea how long she's been running...

[ebinmaine 67,766]

6 minutes ago, Alrashid2 said:

can I simply remove that breather, clean, and put back together according to the diagram posted above?

 

On a K series you'll have to remove the carb.  

Not sure on a Magnum.  

 

 

[Alrashid2 171]

I see that now, makes sense. Carb looks pretty straight forward to pull too right? 

[ebinmaine 67,766]

6 minutes ago, Alrashid2 said:

I see that now, makes sense. Carb looks pretty straight forward to pull too right? 

 

 

Absolutely. 

Get yourself an OE rebuild kit for it and a base gasket. Might be an air filter gasket too (??)

While the carb is off in your hands give it a decent spray through cleaning with some brake cleaner. 

 

 Easy peasy. 

[Alrashid2 171]

I'll look into all that! I'll at least pull the carb and breather and take a look today. Maybe just put back together with current gaskets for now, drive her around a bit, and see if it changes anything oil-leak wise. I'm sure this engine is old but have no plans to do any rebuild in the near future... thanks all!

[ebinmaine 67,766]

43 minutes ago, Alrashid2 said:

Maybe just put back together with current gaskets for now,

 

I've done that with some things but that gasket is paper and prone to tearing. 

It would be best to have the replacement gasket on hand before removal.  

 

 

[Handy Don 12,281]

42 minutes ago, Alrashid2 said:

I'll look into all that! I'll at least pull the carb and breather and take a look today. Maybe just put back together with current gaskets for now, drive her around a bit, and see if it changes anything oil-leak wise. I'm sure this engine is old but have no plans to do any rebuild in the near future... thanks all!

Unless you have a photographic memory, I strongly suggest you TAKE PICTURES of how the governor linkages connect to the carb and how the throttle and choke cables connect before you take anything apart. Not that I would have any reason for suggesting this. 

[ebinmaine 67,766]

19 minutes ago, Handy Don said:

. Not that I would have any reason for suggesting this. 

 

 

Yeah me either.  

[Alrashid2 171]

Haha I have learned time and time again to always take pictures! I did so!

 

Just pulled the carb and breather! 

 

Unfortunately the breather was perfectly assembled, as per the previously posted diagram. Lot of oil in there though, and the filter is totally saturated. Thinking that might not be the best news... isn't the oil supposed to drain back into the engine, as opposed to weeping out?

 

Maybe the gasket is bad? I checked that the little hole was on the bottom, so in theory I think oil should drain back in... 

[Handy Don 12,281]

4 minutes ago, Alrashid2 said:

Haha I have learned time and time again to always take pictures! I did so!

 

Just pulled the carb and breather! 

 

Unfortunately the breather was perfectly assembled, as per the previously posted diagram. Lot of oil in there though, and the filter is totally saturated. Thinking that might not be the best news... isn't the oil supposed to drain back into the engine, as opposed to weeping out?

 

Maybe the gasket is bad? I checked that the little hole was on the bottom, so in theory I think oil should drain back in... 

Making sure the filter is clean and the drain hole is clear and the gasket is good are all you can do on a correctly assembled breather. Check also that the cover is flat at the edges!

 

Is the oil at the correct level? It’s sometimes tempting to “add just a bit more for insurance” but it really isn’t useful and can create issues.

Edited November 7 by Handy Don

[oliver2-44 9,787]

Since your ordering gaskets for the carb and breather order a new breather mesh filter.

The old one will probable fall apart when you remove it  ( they look like coarse scotch bite bad material)  

 

Inside the breather cavity are your 2 valve springs.

Down in the bottom side/corner is a small hole (slightly smaller than 1.8" if I remember) that allows oil in that area to flow back to the crankcase.

Clean that hole with a wire.

You will probable want to clean that area out with some brake clean or similar spray solvent.

If you not going to change your oil after this, plug that hole so your spray cleaner doesn't go into the crankcase and dilute your oil. (I use a whittled wooden match stick)

Take a picture of that area before you clean it.  It will give you a peek of how this engine was maintained.

It will definitely have some black oil film/buildup.

But if the Previous Owner did rarely changed the oil or never serviced this, it will have a black goo sludge at the bottom.  (clean it out and move forward)  

While you have this open is the perfect time to check and adjust your valve spring clearance.  (Kohler Service Manual says every 500 hours)

Your K301 has adjustable tappets. Read the simple process in the Kohler Service manual. 

Since you've never been in one of these engines go to the Disassemble Section and read through it to help you visualize the internals before you pull it apart  (But your only disassembling the breather and partial carb, so don't get overwhelmed.) 

 

Since your new at this, on the carb just plan to remove the 2 needles and the bottom bowl and float. 

SAFETY

when you spraying cleaner through all the carb holes it can come out somewhere and spray back at you Wear safety glasses. 

You also want to wear disposable gloves since your going to get spray cleaner on your hands ( I buy the thicker mil black ones) 

Can you tell my wife is a medical person and preaches how absorbent the skin on your hands is!

Don't try to remove the chock and throttle shaft which would require removing the tiny screws holding the round plates on. (the screws are staked and easy to break of removing them)

If you throttle shaft has a lot of side to side movement (wear) get back with us and we can walk you through a simple repair and how to remove those tiny brass screws) 

When you remove the 2 needles, first count the turns it takes to completely close them to a gentle closed position. You will use this to reinstall them in the same position. 

On the long needle it is hollow but closed at the top and bottom. There are several horizontal holes in it that need to be cleaned with a tiny wire (i clip a wire off a wire brush and hold it in a vice grip)

I hold the spray carb or brake clean straw against the holes and see that it blows out the other holes.   

Then take the carb body and spray cleaner through the 2 needle holes several times.  Also take the spray straw and hold it against the small holes you see inside the carb throat.  This is kind of awkward,  but work at it to spray them out multiple times)

If the carb bowl has some hard or gooey stuff in the bottom (old evaporated gas) soak it in lacquer thinner if you have some, or just spray and scrub with a stiff tooth brush multiple time (that stuff can get amazingly hard)

 

[Alrashid2 171]

Thank you guys for the detailed instructions and advice. I just wanted to get in there and at least take a look. Looks like the drain hole in the back was clean and clear, inside by the valves was super clean - looked brand new! 

 

I'll look into ordering the carb gasket, breather gaskets (2), and that breather filter. Yup, looked like a brillo pad but was shockingly in good shape. Didn't fall apart, though I can see how it would over time. Anything else to buy?

 

I'll look into the valve adjustment when i get the gaskets. Can I ask, what happens if your valves aren't adjusted correctly? Likewise, what is the function of the tippets? 

 

You guys rock! Thanks

 

Edit: thought i should mention, yes there was some oil in the breather system, but not a ton. It honestly just looks like the gaskets are leaking during operation, so maybe not as much blowback as I thought. Will keep an eye on it. 

Edited November 7 by Alrashid2

[Alrashid2 171]

Well, ran her for 15 minutes around the property and went back and checked the engine block. 

I was thinking maybe the oil was leaking from the fuel pump area. I now realize it looks like it's leaking from the governor arm, and dripping down onto the fuel pump area. 

 

I still think the breather was leaking though - I ended up flipping the gaskets in the mean time and so far it's holding, no leaks! It sounds like not much can be done about the governor arm leak though as I've read some posts on here. 

 

As long as I'm not dripping oil, I'm OK with a bit of leaks. My old Jeep used to seep oil all day long and she ran fine .

[Handy Don 12,281]

Valve out-of-adjustment varies by valve and direction (too little or too much). Others will know better than me the exact effects.

 

[Alrashid2 171]

Noticed there is oil coming from the top right bolt of this component. Anyone know what this is?

 

Bolts werent tight so I snugged them down 

EDIT: Figured out it's the camshaft cover. Another gasket to potentially replace! Will keep an eye on it.

 

Edited November 7 by Alrashid2

[oliver2-44 9,787]

7 hours ago, Alrashid2 said:

I'll look into the valve adjustment when i get the gaskets. Can I ask, what happens if your valves aren't adjusted correctly? Likewise, what is the function of the tippets? 

 

The tappets ride on the camshaft and push the valves open and then let the spring close the valve.  

if there is excess clear between the top of the tappet and bottom of the valve stem, then the valve is not opening all the way.

So if the intake valve is not opening all the way that means less fuel in the engine.

if the exhaust is not opening fully, engine not fully getting burned gases out of it.

if the valve to tappet clearance is too tight, then the valve is not closing all the way.

This causes a loss of compression and therefore loss of power.

The valve to tappet requires the minimum clearance because as the engine metal heats up the parts grow/get longer.  

[Alrashid2 171]

Confirmed the main leak is from the breather! Am I safe to assume if I replace the gaskets I'll be good to go?

 

Did notice a bit of oil from the governor arm and also some from the oil drain plug despite being right... But the big leak is from the breather 

[ebinmaine 67,766]

18 minutes ago, Alrashid2 said:

Am I safe to assume if I replace the gaskets I'll be good to go?

 

You're safe to assume that replacing those gaskets is the next logical step. 

After that.....

Recheck and report.