Medic1657 10 #1 Posted October 31 Hi everyone! New to this site and my first post. I’m working on a recently purchased 416-8 with the Kohler K341 engine. I’ve just begun to go through the systems and making some repairs. It starts, runs. Idles rough at times. It drives in both Hi and Lo ranges but the brakes did not work. The brake friction band was oily and almost gone and the brake pedal was stuck in the down position. I repaired both of these problems after reading through the archives here on this site. BTW…Thank You! to everyone as the information has been helpful. I also replaced the axle seals and the brake drum seal since they were leaking. After reinstalling the rear wheel hubs I checked the brake performance to see if the band needed adjusting. When I rotate the rear axle, the brake drum does not turn. I tested it in Hi and Lo range in forward and reverse…the drum doesn’t turn. I’m guessing this is bad news since it points to a broken woodruff key in the transmission? Is there something I’m missing or am I on the right track with my assessment? I’m guessing a broken woodruff key would prevent the brakes from functioning but still allow forward and rearward movement. Thank you for any help or advice you can give. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WHX?? 49,131 #2 Posted October 31 (edited) Guessing you put the woodruff key back on the brake shaft stub? Hard to believe something would have broke inside. Replacement brake friction material can be purchased from a member here. I have rejuvenated them by burning off oil but if it's worn bad ... https://www.wheelhorseforum.com/forum/151-bobs-brake-linings/ Edited October 31 by WHX?? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Medic1657 10 #3 Posted October 31 Thanks for the reply! Does the stub have a key? Here's picture of a similar drum to the one on my WH. I didn't see a key when I removed it and the parts diagram I found on here for the 8 speed doesn't show one. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WHX?? 49,131 #4 Posted October 31 Older ones did you may have the double d style as pictured, those don't. Guessing then the double d is not rounded out? I believe the brake shaft in your tranny is the cluster gear shaft. There is a key in there but hard to believe that would shear. What year or model is your tractor? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Medic1657 10 #6 Posted October 31 Thanks for the diagram gwest_ca, the 86 diagram appears to be a match. At some point the PO removed the WH tractor ID plate that should be beside the seat. Based on the Kohler K341 engine data plate and what I've been able to research on RedSquare I would say it is a 1985 or 1986 model. I had to pry off the brake drum when I removed it and the double d looked fine other than being covered with grease and dirt. When I reinstalled it I had to match the alignment so that it would slide onto the shaft. I plan to reinspect everything again in the morning. I've definitely stopped reassembly at this point in case I have to pull the transmission assembly. The tractor came with a roto tiller and grading blade so it's seen some work and I don't know it's maintenance history. I forgot to mention that I did find water in the transmission gear oil and there was no boot on the gear selector. That's been remedied already too. I may have been the source of the water by pressure washing it after bringing it home. There's slop in the steering also that I traced to the worn ball joints. I have the parts to convert that to heim fittings. Steering and stopping are the top 2 things I want to address initially since it starts and moves. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,090 #7 Posted October 31 The engine serial number will date when Kohler made the engine. So tractor model will be that year or one following. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Medic1657 10 #8 Posted October 31 Here's a photo I took of the engine data label when I brought it home. Looks like a 1985 model if I read the SER # decoding info correctly. The engine was one of the reasons I took a gamble on it to try to bring it back to working order. From what I've read the older Kohlers were pretty solid. This is my first Wheel Horse and so far I'm impressed with how solidly they are built. Everything is basically mechanical and made of metal. Not a lot of electrical parts that can fail on these. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,090 #9 Posted October 31 Your tractor is a 1985 model number 31-16K801 because that is the only model to use the 71371 spec number. https://www.wheelhorseforum.com/search/?q=31-16K801&quick=1&type=downloads_file Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
squonk 41,291 #10 Posted October 31 8 hours ago, WHX?? said: Older ones did you may have the double d style as pictured, those don't. Guessing then the double d is not rounded out? I believe the brake shaft in your tranny is the cluster gear shaft. There is a key in there but hard to believe that would shear. What year or model is your tractor? The drum is on the cluster gear but there is no key. The gear is one piece. @Medic1657 jack up the back of the tractor. Try turning both wheels at the same time. I'm thinking the differential action would give you the false impression that the brake shaft is broken somehow. I'm guessing with both wheels turning the drum will spin. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WHX?? 49,131 #11 Posted October 31 (edited) 18 minutes ago, squonk said: The drum is on the cluster gear but there is no key. # 40 is what I was looking at Squonky ... I think that is is the key to # 38. If that were sheared the tractor wouldn't go at all ?? Seems to me someone sheared that once at plow day ... CRS ?? I'm used to the brake drum being on the mushroom gear. Edited October 31 by WHX?? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
squonk 41,291 #12 Posted October 31 He said the tractor drives fine. I'm thinking he's testing the brake spinning one wheel which won't turn the bull gear because of the differential. I don't think anything is broken and if he would just roll the tractor he's see that brake drum turn. 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
953 nut 55,734 #13 Posted October 31 20 minutes ago, squonk said: @Medic1657 jack up the back of the tractor. Try turning both wheels at the same time. I'm thinking the differential action would give you the false impression that the brake shaft is broken somehow. I'm guessing with both wheels turning in the same direction the drum will spin. Or jack up ONE rear wheel while the other is on the ground, rotate the one that is off the ground and see if the brake drum turns. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Medic1657 10 #14 Posted October 31 I owe you Squonk! It's still on jack stands so it only took a second to check it. Spun both wheels forward and the brake drum turned! Thank you! 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WHX?? 49,131 #15 Posted October 31 8 minutes ago, Medic1657 said: I owe you Squonk! Well he owes all of us so don't worry about it ... 1 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ed Kennell 38,598 #16 Posted October 31 to the Medic. Aren't these Red Square s amazing. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pullstart 63,080 #17 Posted October 31 14 minutes ago, Ed Kennell said: to the Medic. Aren't these Red Square s amazing. and thanks for your service to the community! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Medic1657 10 #18 Posted October 31 Thanks to everybody for your help! It saved me a lot of work chasing nothing. Now that I can stop the WH, I can focus on upgrading the steering because I hear that's important too. Got to have a project to tinker with this weekend to keep me busy at home to avoid the NASCAR traffic in town. I'll post some pics when I get the body parts back on it. Take care, 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Handy Don 12,436 #19 Posted November 1 (edited) On 10/31/2024 at 7:36 AM, squonk said: @Medic1657 jack up the back of the tractor. Try turning both wheels at the same time. I'm thinking the differential action would give you the false impression that the brake shaft is broken somehow. I'm guessing with both wheels turning the drum will spin. Well done! Edited November 1 by Handy Don Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
