312-8 won't start- wire ID?

[manahale 43]

Good morning friends...

I parked my WH outside of the garage while I restored the mower deck. After a week of restoration work, I went to start the WH and nothing. No click either.  In the past, when I had a Craftsman rider with an electrical problem, I was offered a procedure to follow to determine the problem. I did that procedure on my WH, but do not know how to interpret the results. Here's what I got.

1. Fuses look good, but I did not check the contacts in the fuse holder. (will do later).

2.Battery voltage is at 12.31v. I have power from battery to one of the large terminals on the solenoid, 12.29v. 

3. Checked for power at the small terminal of the solenoid while depressing the clutch/brake pedal with the key in the start position. The voltage varies wildly between 2-4v on the tab terminal with the white wire. When I check for continuity between the case ground and the tab terminal I get an erratic reading and then it settled down to .002. Also, a whirring noise, or sounds like a timer ticking.

4. Checked or power on the other large terminal of the solenoid while holding the key in the start position (pedals depressed) and got no voltage.

5, Checked for power at the starter while holding the key in the start position. 12.31v

In addendum, when I check the Test lights, they all light up, but the engine oil light flashes and is not on steady like the others. Oil level is full. Headlights do not turn on. 

Big question...while doing all these tests, I noticed a disconnected black wire. It's about 6" long and comes off of the ground screw that the negative battery cable is attached to. See photo. A grey wire comes off the same ground screw and goes into the wiring harness, but I don't see where this 6" wire should go. It appears to have a broken terminal connector on the end? It might go to one of the fuse holders? Any thoughts on this are appreciated as well as an interpretation of my readings.

Btw, the solenoid is a Trombetta, from the Toro dealer. Purchased about 2 months ago. If it's no good, what conditions would cause a solenoid to fail prematurely?

Thanks in advance, and when I get it started, I'll post pics of the deck and how I welded and finished it. 

 

[953 nut 55,198]

Is the PTO in the operate position?  That could be the problem.

Since the solenoid has ben working and the ignition switch has been working fine I wouldn't worry about the disconnected wire for now.

Clean and tighten ALL electrical connections including grounds.

17 minutes ago, manahale said:

1. Fuses look good, but I did not check the contacts in the fuse holder. (will do later).      Looks can be deceiving, clean the fuse holders and check the fuses.

2.Battery voltage is at 12.31v. I have power from battery to one of the large terminals on the solenoid, 12.29v. 12.7 should be fully charged but 12.3 should be enough to cause the solenoid to at least chatter.

3. Checked for power at the small terminal of the solenoid while depressing the clutch/brake pedal with the key in the start position. The voltage varies wildly between 2-4v on the tab terminal with the white wire. When I check for continuity between the case ground and the tab terminal I get an erratic reading and then it settled down to .002. Also, a whirring noise, or sounds like a timer ticking.  take a small jumper wire from the live large terminal of the solenoid to the small terminal that is fed from the ignition switch, this should cause the solenoid to close.

Why won’t my starter turn over from the key switch?

Lets take a logical step by step inspection of your starter problem.

Is your PTO in the ON position, a wheel horse will not start with the PTO on.

Have you had the battery load tested at an auto parts store?

Have you cleaned and tightened all electrical connections including grounds?

Are all fuses good and fuse holders cleaned?

If these have all been done, we can check components of the starting system as follows; don’t skip a step or you may miss the problem.

Be sure the transmission is in neutral and the parking brake is set.

Take a pair of automotive jumper cables and connect the black cable to your battery  "-" and a good clean spot on the engine. Now connect the other cable to the large post on the starter and touch the other end to the battery "+" terminal, does the starter turn over? If the starter turns over the battery and starter are good. If it didn't turn over try the same steps with the battery in your car/truck, if that cures the problem then the "good" battery wasn't so good.

Presuming the starter turned over move the jumper wire from the starter post to the other end of the wire going to the starter which is one of the large posts on the solenoid. If the starter turns over when the battery is touched by the jumper as before then that cable is good, if not you have found your problem.

Presuming the starter turned over move that jumper to the other terminal of the solenoid, connect the other end to the battery and use a small piece of wire to temporarily connect the battery "+" terminal to the small terminal on the solenoid, this should cause the solenoid to close and the starter to turn over. If not, the solenoid is probably the problem.

If this was successful remove the large jumper cable and use the small jumper wire to the small terminal of the solenoid, the solenoid should close and the starter turn over. If not the cable to the battery is the problem.

Presuming all of these have been successful remove the black jumper wire and repeat the small jumper to small terminal, if the starter turns over the ground is good.

If all of these components test good then remove your ignition switch, be sure the transmission is in neutral, parking brake on, clutch depressed and PTO off. Use a small jumper to connect the terminals that were connected to the “B” and “S” terminals of the ignition switch. If the starter turns over then the PTO switch and other safety switches are operating properly and your ignition switch may be bad.

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,041]

That is a ground wire you are holding. Perhaps it was under the head of one of the solenoid mounting bolts.

[Gasaholic 224]

6 hours ago, manahale said:

Good morning friends...

I parked my WH outside of the garage while I restored the mower deck. After a week of restoration work, I went to start the WH and nothing. No click either.  In the past, when I had a Craftsman rider with an electrical problem, I was offered a procedure to follow to determine the problem. I did that procedure on my WH, but do not know how to interpret the results. Here's what I got.

1. Fuses look good, but I did not check the contacts in the fuse holder. (will do later).

 

6 hours ago, manahale said:

2.Battery voltage is at 12.31v. I have power from battery to one of the large terminals on the solenoid, 12.29v. 

12.3 volts at battery = It needs charged  full charge is 12.8V  so 12.3 is a tad low - about 30% of a charge there. I'd be checking battery voltage on the posts themselves first and then check again at the wire terminals - corrosion or poor contact between battery post and terminal means a voltage drop. 

6 hours ago, manahale said:

3. Checked for power at the small terminal of the solenoid while depressing the clutch/brake pedal with the key in the start position. The voltage varies wildly between 2-4v on the tab terminal with the white wire. When I check for continuity between the case ground and the tab terminal I get an erratic reading and then it settled down to .002. Also, a whirring noise, or sounds like a timer ticking.

4. Checked or power on the other large terminal of the solenoid while holding the key in the start position (pedals depressed) and got no voltage.

5, Checked for power at the starter while holding the key in the start position. 12.31v

Maybe I'm not understanding you here, but if you show Battery volts at the starter terminal itself and the starter does not operate then the starter is not grounded - Is this one of those "shaker" cradle engines mounted on a cradle that is mounted on rubber isolators? If so, your ground strap may have broken. (I've seen choke cables turn red hot because of that, because starter is grounding through only path available to it - the choke cable between engine and somewhere on frame that it touches)  Otherwise you may have your test meter hooked up wrong. 

6 hours ago, manahale said:

In addendum, when I check the Test lights, they all light up, but the engine oil light flashes and is not on steady like the others. Oil level is full. Headlights do not turn on. 

Big question...while doing all these tests, I noticed a disconnected black wire. It's about 6" long and comes off of the ground screw that the negative battery cable is attached to. See photo. A grey wire comes off the same ground screw and goes into the wiring harness, but I don't see where this 6" wire should go. It appears to have a broken terminal connector on the end? It might go to one of the fuse holders? Any thoughts on this are appreciated as well as an interpretation of my readings.

Btw, the solenoid is a Trombetta, from the Toro dealer. Purchased about 2 months ago. If it's no good, what conditions would cause a solenoid to fail prematurely?

Thanks in advance, and when I get it started, I'll post pics of the deck and how I welded and finished it. 

 

 

 Black wire you are holding is a grounding wire, possibly as mentioned it goes to the solenoid base bolt (if for some reason solenoid or what it mounts on is not fully grounded, OR solenoid is a 4-pole with both a trigger and a ground terminal - But then you should not see 12 volts at starter if solenoid is not operating.) 

 

[Ed Kennell 38,158]

9 hours ago, manahale said:

1.  I did not check the contacts in the fuse holder. (will do later).

This was a problem with my 310-8.

I replaced the fuse holder with a new waterproof in line fuse holder.

 

[manahale 43]

Thanks all. I’ve been busy teaching classes, (not Wheel Horse mechanics) but I should be getting to it this week. I’ll keep you posted.

[manahale 43]

This has been a week of electrical education regarding my WH. Thank you to all for your suggestions. The problem was the loose ground wire. I started to remove the solenoid and noticed what was left of the terminal connector on the stud. So it was for the case ground. I attached a new terminal, put everything back together and she started right up.